Where Did God Go?????

whenhen wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

CT Track wrote:There is no such thing as sin. It's all a bunch of social mores.

Yup, you aren't accountable for anything.

Of course you're accountable for things. It's just that sins are relative among cultures. It's considered a Koranic sin in Saudi Arabia for women to drive, but clearly, that's a cultural ideal.

well, i'm not talking about driving or anything like that. i'm talking about lying, stealing, adultery, gossip, things like that. those will never/shoudn't be acceptable in any culture.

CT Track wrote:So we get by on dick sucking. Everything in life just seems relative now.

uh, what?

By constantly begging God to forgive us, we get into heaven? If not I'm not quite understanding your logic of grace and repenting.

AudienceOfOne wrote:
no, you still don't get it. heaven and hell is not determined on how much you sin or how many good deeds you do. we're saved by grace. by being faithful, and repenting, we are saved. you can't get into heaven by good deeds or get into hell by bad ones. we all fall short.

So what if a serial murder was the most religious man of all, and he repented; would he go to heaven?

That's what I'm getting from this statement. Islam believes in something ludacris and Christianity believes in even less?

whenhen wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:
no, you still don't get it. heaven and hell is not determined on how much you sin or how many good deeds you do. we're saved by grace. by being faithful, and repenting, we are saved. you can't get into heaven by good deeds or get into hell by bad ones. we all fall short.

So what if a serial murder was the most religious man of all, and he repented; would he go to heaven?

Jeffrey Dahmer. murdered 17 people, kept their body parts in his fridge. after he was caught, he wasn't even remorseful at the trial. after a little while in jail, he started reading the bible. then he started attending the christian classes at the jail. according to the leader there, he was one of the best students. then he got a lethal injection. if Dahmer truly believed and repented, was he saved? yes.

CT Track wrote:By constantly begging God to forgive us, we get into heaven? If not I'm not quite understanding your logic of grace and repenting.

we are here to glorify him. when we make mistakes, we repent, he forgives, he forgets.

CT Track wrote:That's what I'm getting from this statement. Islam believes in something ludacris and Christianity believes in even less?

ha, guess you could say it's crazy from human standards.

but think about it. how could you POSSIBLY do enough good deeds to please the God who created the universe? you could work all your life, non-stop, and it still wouldn't be enough.

Audience: I can't swallow what you're saying. If I killed 17 people in cold blood, then decided god was real, and said "Well gee god, sorry for killing all those people, my bad," I'd go to heaven? Vs if I were an atheist whos life work was helping orphans in Africa get an education and a guaranteed meal day after day, I'd go to hell.

whenhen, some people have done that. and although its bad. god will forgive them, if they are truly repentant for their sins then he will accept them and therefore forgive their sins.

whenhen wrote:Audience: I can't swallow what you're saying. If I killed 17 people in cold blood, then decided god was real, and said "Well gee god, sorry for killing all those people, my bad," I'd go to heaven? Vs if I were an atheist whos life work was helping orphans in Africa get an education and a guaranteed meal day after day, I'd go to hell.

seriously that sounds like me..lol

All I do is help and give to others..when I'm older I plan on being like the next Angelina Jolie..haha But just because I dont believe in their religion, I'm going to Hell. Your religion is corrupted . That just makes me want to be a non-christian even more.

wait I said I wouldn't post here anymore..hmm my bad

Pinthin wrote:

whenhen wrote:Audience: I can't swallow what you're saying. If I killed 17 people in cold blood, then decided god was real, and said "Well gee god, sorry for killing all those people, my bad," I'd go to heaven? Vs if I were an atheist whos life work was helping orphans in Africa get an education and a guaranteed meal day after day, I'd go to hell.

seriously that sounds like me..lol

All I do is help and give to others..when I'm older I plan on being like the next Angelina Jolie..haha But just because I dont believe in their religion, I'm going to Hell. Your religion is corrupted . That just makes me want to be a non-christian even more.

wait I said I wouldn't post here anymore..hmm my bad

just don't make out with your brother

whenhen wrote:Audience: I can't swallow what you're saying. If I killed 17 people in cold blood, then decided god was real, and said "Well gee god, sorry for killing all those people, my bad," I'd go to heaven? Vs if I were an atheist whos life work was helping orphans in Africa get an education and a guaranteed meal day after day, I'd go to hell.

i know it's hard to swallow. it goes against our nature. our nature is to think that if you kill 17 people, you should get the ultimate punishment. but my God is sovereign, he doesn't need to explain his plan to us.

AudienceOfOne wrote:

whenhen wrote:Audience: I can't swallow what you're saying. If I killed 17 people in cold blood, then decided god was real, and said "Well gee god, sorry for killing all those people, my bad," I'd go to heaven? Vs if I were an atheist whos life work was helping orphans in Africa get an education and a guaranteed meal day after day, I'd go to hell.

i know it's hard to swallow. it goes against our nature. our nature is to think that if you kill 17 people, you should get the ultimate punishment. but my God is sovereign, he doesn't need to explain his plan to us.

He loves us. It hurts him when we sin but because of his love he forgive us if we ask of it.

Pinthin wrote:

whenhen wrote:Audience: I can't swallow what you're saying. If I killed 17 people in cold blood, then decided god was real, and said "Well gee god, sorry for killing all those people, my bad," I'd go to heaven? Vs if I were an atheist whos life work was helping orphans in Africa get an education and a guaranteed meal day after day, I'd go to hell.

seriously that sounds like me..lol

All I do is help and give to others..when I'm older I plan on being like the next Angelina Jolie..haha But just because I dont believe in their religion, I'm going to Hell. Your religion is corrupted . That just makes me want to be a non-christian even more.

wait I said I wouldn't post here anymore..hmm my bad

have you sinned?
if you have then you're just the same as Dahmer. a sin is a sin is a sin.

again, if we had to rely on doing good deeds and staying away from bad ones, we'd ALL go to hell, because who can live the perfect life that God requires without grace?

Christianity is corrupted? what makes you so special that the God of the universe has to explain himself to you?

AudienceOfOne wrote:
have you sinned?
if you have then you're just the same as Dahmer. a sin is a sin is a sin.

Actually there are different levels. One level would be major sins, another would be intentional minor sins, and another would be unintentional minor sins.

FinishingKick wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:
have you sinned?
if you have then you're just the same as Dahmer. a sin is a sin is a sin.

Actually there are different levels. One level would be major sins, another would be intentional minor sins, and another would be unintentional minor sins.

ha, that's the biggest load of crap i've ever seen. did that come from the catholic church or from the bible?

and what's the point of categorizing them? any intentional sin will get you into hell, and no matter what sin you commit, you can still get into heaven.

oh geeze i hate this..
you cannot rate sins i mean come on.

It's not really a rating, it shows steps of improvement I guess.

FinishingKick wrote:It's not really a rating, it shows steps of improvement I guess.

well you just gave me another reason not to be a catholic.

AudienceOfOne wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:It's not really a rating, it shows steps of improvement I guess.

well you just gave me another reason not to be a catholic.

im with you. i dont like the idea of catholicism but i have a feeling that whoever i marry especially if i stay in the area will be catholic. there arent many non catholics here.

BagoXC25 wrote:When you say "speak to us", I think what you meant to say was "speak to me". Just because you have lost all connection with God doesn't mean we all have. You just won't experience what us christians experience until you accept JC. I talk to God every day and he works his ways into every aspect of my life.

ya, me too. God speaks to me everyday. God also reveals himself through his creation. God can also speak to you through other people. you just might not realize it till later. BagoXC25 is right. you cant hear the voice of God until you decide to accept Jesus Christ into your heart

Wow, someone actually understood me for once lol, thank you . And I must say, this is the cleanest religion debate I have ever seen, but to get back on topic. I'm catholic and there are weird exceptions and rules, but the bottom line really is if you believe in Jesus then you go to heaven, because by believing in Jesus you are accepting God. Here is some clarification of some catholic practices that a lot of people don't understand.

We have a priest because he has accepting the holy spirit into himself, given to him by the apostles, who got it from Jesus so that the apostles (and priest and bishops etc) could forgive sins and heal the sick and whatnot. Priests "married" to the church and so have a different spiritual bond with God than we do. We go through him to get our sacrement of reconciliation so God can forgive us for our sins. This does not mean we don't have to pray for forgiveness also though, which most people do. I pray because I feel bad after my sin and feel the need to confess it right away, along with recieving reconciliation. This is actually in the bible (John
20:22–23 for example.)

The mortal sins I referred too are more serious because we are not just forgetting about God for that time, but we are completely cutting God from our lives by intentionally sinning, or premeditating a sin. Mortal, or "deadly" sins as the bible refers to them (1 John
5:16-17), cannot be cleansed by praying alone and MUST be forgiven with the sacrement of reconciliation. Mortal sins include a whole lot of different things that most of do more than we would think. I can see how a lot of peole think catholic churches are just filled with a whole lot of extra non-sense, but I would just rather be doing too much to forgive my sins and get into heaven than too little if you know what I mean.

This was not meant to promote my specific religion or to degrade other religions, but was just to clarify some things like I said.

whenhen wrote:Audience: I can't swallow what you're saying. If I killed 17 people in cold blood, then decided god was real, and said "Well gee god, sorry for killing all those people, my bad," I'd go to heaven? Vs if I were an atheist whos life work was helping orphans in Africa get an education and a guaranteed meal day after day, I'd go to hell.

If the killer decided, 'well God says if we ask, he will forgive, so I'll just say, sorry God, forgive me' he wouldn't be forgiven. Someone really needs to feel terrible for their deeds. If the serial killer did ask for forgiveness and felt it in his heart, he would be forgiven. What happened before doesn't matter. His sins are wiped away and he is a new person. Its like what he did earlier happened in a past life. So long as he actively tries to become a better person from then on.
Even the most evil of people can be forgiven and brought to be wonderful.
Take Paul from the bible for example. He hated Jesus. He sought out and killed Christains and brought them to jail. He could very well have been on par with a serial killer. However, God spoke to him and Paul felt very badly about his deeds. He later became responsible for bringing many people to God and was willing to be beaten, tortured and put in prison for his faith.
Take this scenario. A man kills 10 people. When he was 25 he went to jail. Just for the story's sake, go along with the unpropable idea that he wouldn't be sentanced to death, and could be released. In jail he finds God and starts reading the bible. Out of jail, he is a totally changed man. He goes to Africa and does aid work. He fights for civil rights. In the end, he gives his life for another. The way you make it sound, since he was previously a serial killer, he shouldn't get to go to heaven. But when he died, he was a changed man.

Another scenario. A man has a lot of money. In order to look good, he donates it. This money goes on to save lives. In his private life, he is rude and mean to others. So he does good deeds. Does this make him better?

God can't be a hypocrite. He loves even those who are not the best people. According to the bible matthew 5:46-47 " you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?"- ebible.com
So if God is going to forgive the "good people" of their sins, ought not he also forgive the ones who have done much worse
Jesus died for everybody, he gets to decide who he saves. In one part of the bible, Jesus is eating with tax collecters(considered very bad people) Others ask why he is eating with them, they were such bad people. He answered to the effect that, these are the people that most need to be saved.
These scenarios and verses may not seem like they pertain to your arguement, but I see the connection.

eternally_running wrote:

BagoXC25 wrote:When you say "speak to us", I think what you meant to say was "speak to me". Just because you have lost all connection with God doesn't mean we all have. You just won't experience what us christians experience until you accept JC. I talk to God every day and he works his ways into every aspect of my life.

ya, me too. God speaks to me everyday. God also reveals himself through his creation. God can also speak to you through other people. you just might not realize it till later. BagoXC25 is right. you cant hear the voice of God until you decide to accept Jesus Christ into your heart

ok i am assuming you mean symbolically, because you are a nut if you literally hear god's voice in your head.