Gay by choice or birth?

I say that you are gay by choice because God would not doom you to hell from birth.

I'd say it doesn't matter. If people want to choose that path because it makes them happy, then I'm happy for them. Good on them for not giving a crap what the crowds think. If they are born with it, then they're born with it.

I'll stay out of the religious side of this argument... I had a counterpoint to RWSs statement, but had to bite my tounge, or else it will just turn into a massive religious argument again.

Speak your mind. Arguments are what this forum is here for.

I don't know because I'm straight lol.

I think if it's by choice, it's a sin, but if you're born gay, it must be some kind of Bible misinterpretation.

Oh it's not that I'm scared to speak up or anything. It's just I end up spendng hours typing, then thinking 'you just completely wasted your time'.

I sort of think you were doomed from birth because some kids already know at like 9, and I didn't even like people at 9, so I doubt they would have already tried liking the opposite sex, didn't like it and switched. And they always have those shows on TV "i was born a man in a women's body" i mean you dont know if its true but then again, you have to wonder.

So I say sort of from birth, but you could eventually change also.

FinishingKick wrote:I don't know because I'm straight lol.

I think if it's by choice, it's a sin, but if you're born gay, it must be some kind of Bible misinterpretation.

+1

I think that if it does turn out that being gay has some sort of medical basis, that there's likely to be an issue with the way the Bible has been interpreted or analyzed. Either the words were misrepresented, or the meaning behind them has been skewed.

God wouldn't be dooming you to hell if you were born gay. Being gay isn't a sin, gay actions are a sin. So as long as a gay guy doesn't put his you-know-what in anybodies you-know-where, he's fine.

Pinthin wrote:
And what about all the gay fathers (as in catholic) that molest little boys, are they going to hell? Even if they didn't molest anyone, would they still go?

Yes, No.

HXC_Runner2012 wrote:

Pinthin wrote:
And what about all the gay fathers (as in catholic) that molest little boys, are they going to hell? Even if they didn't molest anyone, would they still go?

Yes, No.

just seems kinda ironic how he would send someone to "hell" when its one of his own.

Running With Scissors wrote:I say that you are gay by choice because God would not doom you to hell from birth.

+1

Why would a person condemn themselves to a life of torment and persecution by choice?

If you are a catholic, then you do not believe it is a choice...

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_rom2.htm

Pinthin wrote:

HXC_Runner2012 wrote:

Pinthin wrote:
And what about all the gay fathers (as in catholic) that molest little boys, are they going to hell? Even if they didn't molest anyone, would they still go?

Yes, No.

just seems kinda ironic how he would send someone to "hell" when its one of his own.

I don't imagine that people who molest little boys are truly His to begin with.

And in any case, it isn't really our job to sort it all out (or condemn them), is it? That territory belongs to the Big Guy Upstairs.

Kugar wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

HXC_Runner2012 wrote:

Pinthin wrote:
And what about all the gay fathers (as in catholic) that molest little boys, are they going to hell? Even if they didn't molest anyone, would they still go?

Yes, No.

just seems kinda ironic how he would send someone to "hell" when its one of his own.

I don't imagine that people who molest little boys are truly His to begin with.

And in any case, it isn't really our job to sort it all out (or condemn them), is it? That territory belongs to the Big Guy Upstairs.

I guess the bottom parts true. That you wouldn't be able to answer that.

I still stand by its not a choice though.

SourWorms, I think the bishops do differentiate from "homosexual tendencies" which can be suppressed or redirected, and "homosexual behavior" which can be based on "innate instinct." So, IIRC, it is the suggestion of the Catholic church that homosexuals remain sexually inactive in order to avoid entering into sexual relations outside of marraige. So, they think that homosexual tendencies should not be expressed as behavior. Not Catholic. Just saying.

Pinthin: I don't happen to think that it's a choice either. But molesting little boys is more than just homosexuality--it's rooted to a psychological problem and abusive nature. Most gays don't go around raping small children, and I don't think that's okay in God's eyes even if you are heterosexual.

http://www.soulforce.org/article/644

more scientific evidence that it is biological...unless of course you deny science and the church...

Evidence suggests that it's biologically rooted. Churches tend to think that homosexual behavior...acting on tendencies that are present within the brain from birth...can be controlled by choice. Not necessarily that homosexuality is the choice of the person involved, but that it should not be acted on.

Kugar wrote:SourWorms, I think the bishops do differentiate from "homosexual tendencies" which can be suppressed or redirected, and "homosexual behavior" which can be based on "innate instinct." So, IIRC, it is the suggestion of the Catholic church that homosexuals remain sexually inactive in order to avoid entering into sexual relations outside of marraige. So, they think that homosexual tendencies should not be expressed as behavior. Not Catholic. Just saying.

Pinthin: I don't happen to think that it's a choice either. But molesting little boys is more than just homosexuality--it's rooted to a psychological problem and abusive nature. Most gays don't go around raping small children, and I don't think that's okay in God's eyes even if you are heterosexual.

I understand what you are saying. I never said that the church did not think homosexual action is not a sin. I said that the church did not view homosexuality in it of itself as a sin. They recognize that it is not a choice to be a homosexual but rather rooted psychologically and physically

Kugar wrote:Evidence suggests that it's biologically rooted. Churches tend to think that homosexual behavior...acting on tendencies that are present within the brain from birth...can be controlled by choice. Not necessarily that homosexuality is the choice of the person involved, but that it should not be acted on.

Oh i know, the behavior is obviously a choice, you can control yourself from having buttsecks, but not from being attracted to the same sex.

SourWorms wrote:

Kugar wrote:SourWorms, I think the bishops do differentiate from "homosexual tendencies" which can be suppressed or redirected, and "homosexual behavior" which can be based on "innate instinct." So, IIRC, it is the suggestion of the Catholic church that homosexuals remain sexually inactive in order to avoid entering into sexual relations outside of marraige. So, they think that homosexual tendencies should not be expressed as behavior. Not Catholic. Just saying.

Pinthin: I don't happen to think that it's a choice either. But molesting little boys is more than just homosexuality--it's rooted to a psychological problem and abusive nature. Most gays don't go around raping small children, and I don't think that's okay in God's eyes even if you are heterosexual.

I understand what you are saying. I never said that the church did not think homosexual action is not a sin. I said that the church did not view homosexuality in it of itself as a sin. They recognize that it is not a choice to be a homosexual but rather rooted psychologically and physically

Too many negatives in that second sentence

Whether or not the church views homosexuality in and of itself as a sin is entirely up to the church, I think. Different denominations have different viewpoints. Some downplay the biological aspect because it can (and, by their reasoning should) be suppressed. That is where the "choice" comes in.

Well the actions can be suppressed just like a straight person can suppress the urge to sex it with anyone, but sexual orientation is biologically rooted

Good thread. I'm on kugars side on this one. People can't control who they are physically attracted to, but they can control whether or not they have sex or not. I do have to say though that it would take immense self control not to have sex your entire life (unless you get married to a member of the opposite sex, some gays do this and have families.)

Kugar and I are on the same side...i think