Reason for the Season

Well, here's my two cents, it's probably as biased as anyone else's opinion, but whatever.
I am not highly or devoutly religious. I believe there's a God and that you should try to live your life to a high moral standard and be kind, helpful, and compassionate to others. But I don't need the bible to tell me right from wrong.

I believe that people are mostly born (pre-natal factors) heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual. There's perhaps some post-natal factors that contribute, but I think that at most they only contribute minimally. The major theories of how you can 'become' homosexual in my mind are pretty weak.
The reason's I'm gay don't include (aka didn't happen for me):
-I was raped/molested by [insert relative/adult here].
-I didn't have any father/male figures around in my life.
-All my friends when I was young were girls or I wasn't around/didn't associate with many boys, so I felt that I was 'like' girls and 'unlike' boys.
-My mother was too protective/babied me
-Drugs made me do it.
-I was introduced to sex much earlier than most of my heterosexual peers.
-I was introduced to sex much later than most of my heterosexual peers.
-I used to be attracted to girls, but suddenly decided I'd like to hear my friends and own mother talk about how "gay this is" or "faggot this" or my favorite yet; my mom refer to things/people as "all faggoty"
-I'm possessed by Satan, I just don't know it.
-My biological father is a drunk so I'm just rebelling.
-I'm no good with the ladies so I switched to guys.
I think you probably could 'become gay (or at least bisexual) later in life... I just think that's even rarer than being born gay and I'm not sure why or how somebody does that.
At the very least I can tell you for certain it's not like choosing what to wear.

And due to that I think the bible (or at least parts of it and interpretations of it) are human creations subject to just as much bias as anything else written by human beings.
Maybe I'm wrong, I don't claim to be right and I'm probably wrong. I just think if there's a God, he probably doesn't care so much about who you are as how you treat other people.

XCTrackXC, you are right, but as long as you accept Jesus into your heart, then your sins will be forgiven. so even though homosexual behavior is a sin, it does not change god's view on you, nor do your actions. god doesn't play favorites on those who do good things. doing good things is just the result of god being in your heart. he desires for us to do good things, but none of this will change the fact that if you accept Jesus into your heart, then you will go to heaven.

I think it's genetic. The church has been wrong (but not completely) before, and I think this will be one of those things that they apologize for in the future.

SourWorms wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

ND XC 23 wrote:

SourWorms wrote:

Love For Running wrote:While that may be true, it's still a sin

wrong, your statement suggests that god is imperfect since he creates sinful beings, and according to audience, he is perfect and hates sin. therefore it defies all logic that he would create a sinful being.

the vatican says that homosexuality in itself is not a sin because science has proven that sexual orientation is present from birth. homosexual activity, however, is considered a sin, and the pope john paul II asked that they abstain from sexual activity

this is where i get kind of upset with religion. im catholic, go to church every sunday, and im involved with campus ministry but it just kills me when people hate on gays with religion as their reason..isnt it true that God created every man good and in his image? and if a person is created gay then why does this immediately make them sinners?

True, many false christians use and attempt to manipulate religion and God to feed their bias against homosexuals. You can find these people at gay rallies holding up a "TURN 2 JESUS" sign.

I believe homosexuality is a sin, and I believe that homosexuals are not born that way. Homosexuals can be Christians and gay at the same time. I know christians that are gay.

i am sure you are smarter than all of those scientists who have said homosexuality is not a choice.

and apparently you know more about the bible, which is an outdated text that is not applicable to society today but nonetheless some very good lessons and morals, than the pope.

There are many scientists and biologists who beleive that homosexuals are not born.

I do not know more about the Bible than the pope does. I never claimed I did. Virtually all of the New Testament is applicable today, I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.

FinishingKick wrote:I think it's genetic. The church has been wrong (but not completely) before, and I think this will be one of those things that they apologize for in the future.

So if it's genetic, does that mean you think it can be passed down genetically in a dominant or recessive trait? (not arguing here, just trying to learn what your opinion is)

If its dominant, it will die out incredibly soon as gay people are obviously less likely to have children, so I doubt that
It could be recessive in theory but again I doubt it
Possibly a common mutation in the XX/XY chromosome.
But there isn't enough information, saying God made us Gay however would make more sense as there is no evolutionary reason for us to be gay, however many other animals are gay as well which would suggest maybe it is genetic.

there is actually evidence that suggests that brains function differently based on who a person is attracted to. studies have shown (and i forgot which is which) that the left hemisphere of the brain is bigger when one is attracted to men and the right hemisphere is larger when one is attracted to women, regardless of sex. now this doesn't sound like something that can be acquired during life.

and those scientists who believe that homosexuality is an acquired trait are the same ones who deny evolution and the big bang, so they are not exactly credible

and its not a genetic mutation, it has to do with brain function

Brain function could probably be effected by genetics.
They found a gene in drosophila that causes same-sex behavior, but I doubt it'd be as simple as a single gene in anything much bigger-human or not. Even our eye color isn't caused by a single gene.
Height is a great example of how complex humans are... It's controlled by several genes, and things like HGH, nutrition, etc all contribute, and we probably have even more to learn about height and genetics. Then earlier this week this was in the news.
And there's tons of other things that complicate genetics that we already know about and probably more.

Obviously there's a reason for homosexuality. I just think looking for a single 'gay gene', or really even a single significant cause will probably not get you much of anywhere.

oh definitely not, you are probably right that it is a bunch of different genetic causes, but i doubt it is exactly a mutation.

its interesting, because no one is completely straight or completely gay according to scientists. we just identify with the attraction that we feel most strongly

SourWorms wrote:there is actually evidence that suggests that brains function differently based on who a person is attracted to. studies have shown (and i forgot which is which) that the left hemisphere of the brain is bigger when one is attracted to men and the right hemisphere is larger when one is attracted to women, regardless of sex. now this doesn't sound like something that can be acquired during life.

and those scientists who believe that homosexuality is an acquired trait are the same ones who deny evolution and the big bang, so they are not exactly credible

I read that as well I, think it was straight men and homosexual women have fairly symmetrical brains while homosexual men and straight woman have a slightly bigger left hemisphere.
I may have got mixed up it was almost a year ago I heard that.
They did conclude that they didn't know whether they grew into it or they were born with it but hopefully, some more information will turn up soon

Wgrt wrote:

SourWorms wrote:there is actually evidence that suggests that brains function differently based on who a person is attracted to. studies have shown (and i forgot which is which) that the left hemisphere of the brain is bigger when one is attracted to men and the right hemisphere is larger when one is attracted to women, regardless of sex. now this doesn't sound like something that can be acquired during life.

and those scientists who believe that homosexuality is an acquired trait are the same ones who deny evolution and the big bang, so they are not exactly credible

I read that as well I, think it was straight men and homosexual women have fairly symmetrical brains while homosexual men and straight woman have a slightly bigger left hemisphere.
I may have got mixed up it was almost a year ago I heard that.
They did conclude that they didn't know whether they grew into it or they were born with it but hopefully, some more information will turn up soon

yeah it was something to that effect. i forget exactly what it was but just that there was something having to do with the hemispheres so i could be wrong in the details

There are many scientists and biologists who beleive that homosexuals are not born.

Interesting.. then are they grown??..

I didn't mean genetic, I meant decided by birth.

Wgrt wrote:If its dominant, it will die out incredibly soon as gay people are obviously less likely to have children, so I doubt that
It could be recessive in theory but again I doubt it
Possibly a common mutation in the XX/XY chromosome.
But there isn't enough information, saying God made us Gay however would make more sense as there is no evolutionary reason for us to be gay, however many other animals are gay as well which would suggest maybe it is genetic.

I've read that being homosexual is sometimes caused by a mutation that makes the mother more feminine which allows her to have more mates and thus more kids. The mutation is also expressed in males which causes them to be more feminine and have a far greater chance of being gay than someone without the mutation.
The chances of being a homosexual male increases with the number of boys the mother has because the body initially rejects the boy and attacks it because it has a foreign chromosome and thus sees it as a parasite. As a mom has more boys the body stops fighting the fetus so rigorously and the male becomes more feminine and thus makes it more likely to be gay.
In the New York Times a year ago, the newspaper had a report on gaydar. It said that lesbians tended to have larger index fingers than ring fingers. It also said that gay males were much more likely to have a counter clockwise spin in their hair than straight males who tended to have hair whirl clockwise.

Haha this conversation didn't exactly turn out the way I wanted it to lol.

whenhen wrote:

Wgrt wrote:If its dominant, it will die out incredibly soon as gay people are obviously less likely to have children, so I doubt that
It could be recessive in theory but again I doubt it
Possibly a common mutation in the XX/XY chromosome.
But there isn't enough information, saying God made us Gay however would make more sense as there is no evolutionary reason for us to be gay, however many other animals are gay as well which would suggest maybe it is genetic.

I've read that being homosexual is sometimes caused by a mutation that makes the mother more feminine which allows her to have more mates and thus more kids. The mutation is also expressed in males which causes them to be more feminine and have a far greater chance of being gay than someone without the mutation.
The chances of being a homosexual male increases with the number of boys the mother has because the body initially rejects the boy and attacks it because it has a foreign chromosome and thus sees it as a parasite. As a mom has more boys the body stops fighting the fetus so rigorously and the male becomes more feminine and thus makes it more likely to be gay.
In the New York Times a year ago, the newspaper had a report on gaydar. It said that lesbians tended to have larger index fingers than ring fingers. It also said that gay males were much more likely to have a counter clockwise spin in their hair than straight males who tended to have hair whirl clockwise.

yeahhh im about 95% sure that first paragraph is in no way true.

SourWorms wrote:

whenhen wrote:

Wgrt wrote:If its dominant, it will die out incredibly soon as gay people are obviously less likely to have children, so I doubt that
It could be recessive in theory but again I doubt it
Possibly a common mutation in the XX/XY chromosome.
But there isn't enough information, saying God made us Gay however would make more sense as there is no evolutionary reason for us to be gay, however many other animals are gay as well which would suggest maybe it is genetic.

I've read that being homosexual is sometimes caused by a mutation that makes the mother more feminine which allows her to have more mates and thus more kids. The mutation is also expressed in males which causes them to be more feminine and have a far greater chance of being gay than someone without the mutation.
The chances of being a homosexual male increases with the number of boys the mother has because the body initially rejects the boy and attacks it because it has a foreign chromosome and thus sees it as a parasite. As a mom has more boys the body stops fighting the fetus so rigorously and the male becomes more feminine and thus makes it more likely to be gay.
In the New York Times a year ago, the newspaper had a report on gaydar. It said that lesbians tended to have larger index fingers than ring fingers. It also said that gay males were much more likely to have a counter clockwise spin in their hair than straight males who tended to have hair whirl clockwise.

yeahhh im about 95% sure that first paragraph is in no way true.

That may be true but it is due to higher levels of testosterone, many woman athletes have it, not all of them are gay

AudienceOfOne wrote:Haha this conversation didn't exactly turn out the way I wanted it to lol.

yea.. it kinda got further and further from the original idea.

My hair goes clockwise.

FinishingKick wrote:My hair goes clockwise.

Haha that's crazy. I need to get mine cut.

my hair goes clockwise too.

and i have two of those spirals on my head lol.

If you shaved it would it come back swirly?

I have no knowledge of swirly hair..haha

lol how do you tell what way your hair goes, i usually wear mine straight, i've never really thought of which way it normally goes.

oops i meant mine goes anti-clockwise lol.

xctrackxc, its like wut direction ur hair goes in, if its not straight.
see, mine goes anticlockwise..