Reason for the Season

alex-likes-running wrote:lets just stop arguing, its christmas

AudienceOfOne wrote:

SourWorms wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Adonai wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Adonai wrote:You're still saying we should be able to tell a christian by how nice they are, which is hilariously retarded.

"Should" is the key word there. Christians should show express their faith through action and outward appearance. Christians who never do that are not Christians at all.

You just said the same exact thing again. Changing the wording of your argument isn't going to convince anyone. Again, you're saying we should be able to tell christians from non-christians by how nice they are, and if that's not what you're saying, then you aren't saying anything at all -- or at least have changed the course of the argument.

Yes, I think that you can tell christians from non-christian by their outward conduct, or how "nice" they are.

Sir, let me educate you,

The Aryan Brotherhood is a very "Christian" organization as is the KKK and the Nazi party. They have a very strong belief in god and a hatred for sin. In their eyes, being black or Jewish, or a minority of any sort is a sin. Therefore, by your logic, they are righteous Christians. Now we see the same in a Muslim extremist group such as Hamas, but according to you, they are heathens. Somehow, your logic fails in this department, a fact which seems to not surprise me at all.

Let me pose a question to you, what did Jesus supposedly say was the only requirement for addmitance to heaven at the final judgement?

That's what I've been trying to say, it is a narrow gate. There are very few people who claim to be Christians.

Plus that doesn't even make sense. None of what the KKK does is backed by the bible, it's very easy to see that they are not Christians.

The greatest evangelist ever said that he would be surprised if even 5% of the people that came forward at his conferences were saved. He started a donward spiral in american Christianity that we see today, that has given us clowns like Joel Olsteen to represent our religion to the world.

Again, Jesus said that we would be able to tell Christians by their fruits. Paul continued that by saying that if you are a Christian, you will express that faith through action.

If you are hanging off a skyscraper, and someone holds a hand out to save you, and you say, "i have faith in you", but you refuse to entrust them to save you, is that faith at all? Faith acts. There is no such thing as a carnal christian, that is an invention of american christianity.

SourWorms wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

SourWorms wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Adonai wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Adonai wrote:You're still saying we should be able to tell a christian by how nice they are, which is hilariously retarded.

"Should" is the key word there. Christians should show express their faith through action and outward appearance. Christians who never do that are not Christians at all.

You just said the same exact thing again. Changing the wording of your argument isn't going to convince anyone. Again, you're saying we should be able to tell christians from non-christians by how nice they are, and if that's not what you're saying, then you aren't saying anything at all -- or at least have changed the course of the argument.

Yes, I think that you can tell christians from non-christian by their outward conduct, or how "nice" they are.

Sir, let me educate you,

The Aryan Brotherhood is a very "Christian" organization as is the KKK and the Nazi party. They have a very strong belief in god and a hatred for sin. In their eyes, being black or Jewish, or a minority of any sort is a sin. Therefore, by your logic, they are righteous Christians. Now we see the same in a Muslim extremist group such as Hamas, but according to you, they are heathens. Somehow, your logic fails in this department, a fact which seems to not surprise me at all.

Let me pose a question to you, what did Jesus supposedly say was the only requirement for addmitance to heaven at the final judgement?

That's what I've been trying to say, it is a narrow gate. There are very few people who claim to be Christians.

Plus that doesn't even make sense. None of what the KKK does is backed by the bible, it's very easy to see that they are not Christians.

The greatest evangelist ever said that he would be surprised if even 5% of the people that came forward at his conferences were saved. He started a donward spiral in american Christianity that we see today, that has given us clowns like Joel Olsteen to represent our religion to the world.

Again, Jesus said that we would be able to tell Christians by their fruits. Paul continued that by saying that if you are a Christian, you will express that faith through action.

If you are hanging off a skyscraper, and someone holds a hand out to save you, and you say, "i have faith in you", but you refuse to entrust them to save you, is that faith at all? Faith acts. There is no such thing as a carnal christian, that is an invention of american christianity.

hahaha you are an idiot...from the KKK website:

Bringing a Message of Hope and Deliverance to White Christian America! A Message of Love NOT Hate!

oh i'm so sorry ou are actually wrong on the jesus part. Jesus said that the only thing that we would be judged on at the end of time is "how we treated our fellow men" there is actually no requirement to be saved, go to church, bear fruits, or believe in god. I find it disheartening that I, an atheist, know more about your religion than you do

SourWorms wrote:oh tsk tsk, you are worse than tracko

using circular arguments when you are defeated. see you in hell sir

for no where did got tell you to go and try to convert the masses. and at no time would such a "great" god condemn half of the world to hell

CT Track wrote:

Wrong. They aren't real Christians. You should be able to pick out a good Christian as a good member of society. This doesn't mean you won't find other good members of society either. All (genuine) Christians are nice people, but not all nice people are genuine Christians. Simple logic. Note how I've thrown out most "Christians" with the word "genuine."

Alright none of this really bothered me but how do you come with the idealistics of what a true Christian really is? If you're going to say that they are not true Christians because they are not a good member of society, you're trying to tell me that you are discrediting the bible. You are telling me religion is based soley of society's laws, not God's. Ergo Bible = made up code of laws and God = your conscience.

SourWorms wrote:oh tsk tsk, you are worse than tracko

using circular arguments when you are defeated. see you in hell sir

for no where did got tell you to go and try to convert the masses. and at no time would such a "great" god condemn half of the world to hell

AudienceOfOne wrote:

XCTrackXC wrote:I am by no means highly religious, but I agree with the original message of the thread and I agree that in general a true Christian should be and is most likely going to be a nice person. However, I don't think it's accurate to assume that either every nice person is Christian or that every Christian is nice, I have met some very not nice Christians and I have a friend that is extremely nice and is an Atheist. I also think you're all kind of beating that horse...

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Wgrt wrote:OK, so the pope, he isn't very nice to gay people

I don't know exactly what his position is about homosexuality, but I'm assuming he just disagrees with it.

The question then is, is telling the truth considered to be nice?

I mostly found the comparison to climate change offensive because I consider myself an environmentalist.

VATICAN CITY (AFP) –
A suggestion by Pope Benedict XVI that homosexuality is as much of a threat to the survival of the human race as climate change sparked outrage among gay rights campaigners on Tuesday.

"It's the latest homophobic attack by this pope," said Gustav Hofer,
co-director of a documentary on the life of a gay couple in Italy
called "Suddenly Last Winter".

"The Vatican talks about homosexuality or transsexuality as if it were
a whim, never as suffering," Hofer told AFP, adding that the Roman Catholic Church "reduces sexual orientation to the sexual act as if it had nothing to do with a person's identity."

In his end-of-year speech at the Vatican on Monday, the pope said gender theory
blurred the distinction between male and female, and he called for "an
ecology of the human being" to protect mankind "from self-destruction."

Gender theory, which Benedict referred to in English, explores how
society designates fixed roles to people based on their gender and many
gay groups see it as helpful to improving tolerance and understanding.

Amid a global financial crisis,
"does it really seem appropriate to talk about 'gender' to all these
poor folks who are unemployed or vulnerable and don't even know what
the word means?" left-wing lawmaker Paola Concia wrote in an open
letter to the pope.

"People need words of comfort," she said.

British campaigners including some priests from the Church of England also took the remarks as an attack on homosexuality.

Reverend Sharon Ferguson, chief executive of the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement, called the comments "totally irresponsible and unacceptable."

"When you have religious leaders like that making that sort of
statement, then followers feel they are justified in behaving in an
aggressive and violent way because they feel that they are doing God's
work in ridding the world of these people," she said.

Reverend Doctor Giles Fraser,
president of the pro-gay Anglican movement the Inclusive Church and
vicar of a London parish, said: "The pope is spreading fear that gay
people somehow threaten the planet, and that's just absurd.

"As always, this sort of religious homophobia will be an alibi for all
those who would do gay people harm. Can't he think of something better
to say at Christmas?" he asked.

Mark Dowd, campaign strategist at Operation Noah, the Christian
environmental group, said the remarks were "understandable but
misguided and unfortunate."

Dowd, who is gay, said: "If you study ecology seriously as any
intelligent man would do, and the pope is a fantastically intelligent
man, you realise that ecology is complex, it has all sorts of weird
interdependencies, and it is the same with human sexuality."

The pope's remarks "betray a lack of openness to the complexity of creation," Dowd said.

The Catholic Church has repeatedly spoken against gender theory, but Monday was the first time the pope referred to it directly.

"We are people like everyone else and should not be designated as sinners just because we are trans-gender," said Vladimir Luxuria, a transsexual actress and former communist lawmaker.

Monday's remarks follow hard on the heels of the Vatican's refusal to join a United Nations appeal for the universal decriminalisation of homosexuality launched on December 18 by 66 countries.

More than 80 countries have laws against homosexuality, including nine in which it is punishable by death.

The Vatican is a staunch opponent of the death penalty, but fears the proposed UN resolution would encourage gay marriage.

I agree with the pope that homosexuality is a sin, but comparing it to climate change was very stupid. I agree, that was uncalled for. If it were up to me though, there would be no pope.

AudienceOfOne wrote:

SourWorms wrote:oh tsk tsk, you are worse than tracko

using circular arguments when you are defeated. see you in hell sir

for no where did got tell you to go and try to convert the masses. and at no time would such a "great" god condemn half of the world to hell

I love it when you guys try to tell me I don't know anything about the Bible and then say that something isn't in the Bible when it actually is one of the most famous chapters in the whole book. It's called the Great Commission, look it up.

And i love that last argument. He's a great, loving God so He has to forgive you even though you,re a sinner, right? Wrong. God is a holy God. Perfection hates imperfection, holiness hates sin, love hates hate.

See, I love life so I hate abortion. That's how that works. So yes, a great God has to hate sin, otherwise He would not be a perrfect loving God.

Love For Running wrote:While that may be true, it's still a sin

SourWorms wrote:

Love For Running wrote:While that may be true, it's still a sin

wrong, your statement suggests that god is imperfect since he creates sinful beings, and according to audience, he is perfect and hates sin. therefore it defies all logic that he would create a sinful being.

the vatican says that homosexuality in itself is not a sin because science has proven that sexual orientation is present from birth. homosexual activity, however, is considered a sin, and the pope john paul II asked that they abstain from sexual activity

SourWorms wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

SourWorms wrote:oh tsk tsk, you are worse than tracko

using circular arguments when you are defeated. see you in hell sir

for no where did got tell you to go and try to convert the masses. and at no time would such a "great" god condemn half of the world to hell

I love it when you guys try to tell me I don't know anything about the Bible and then say that something isn't in the Bible when it actually is one of the most famous chapters in the whole book. It's called the Great Commission, look it up.

And i love that last argument. He's a great, loving God so He has to forgive you even though you,re a sinner, right? Wrong. God is a holy God. Perfection hates imperfection, holiness hates sin, love hates hate.

See, I love life so I hate abortion. That's how that works. So yes, a great God has to hate sin, otherwise He would not be a perrfect loving God.

unfortunately for you, i am well educated in the bible and know far more about the bible and its interpretation than you could match.

if god is perfect, he does not hate. this undermines all basis of christianity and jesus' message. again, your argument fails miserably

nice plug for being pro life, its a good thing abortion is still a right in america and the majority of people recognize that frivolous bills such as prop 4 have no place in california, much less america.

SourWorms wrote:

Love For Running wrote:While that may be true, it's still a sin

wrong, your statement suggests that god is imperfect since he creates sinful beings, and according to audience, he is perfect and hates sin. therefore it defies all logic that he would create a sinful being.

the vatican says that homosexuality in itself is not a sin because science has proven that sexual orientation is present from birth. homosexual activity, however, is considered a sin, and the pope john paul II asked that they abstain from sexual activity

ND XC 23 wrote:

SourWorms wrote:

Love For Running wrote:While that may be true, it's still a sin

wrong, your statement suggests that god is imperfect since he creates sinful beings, and according to audience, he is perfect and hates sin. therefore it defies all logic that he would create a sinful being.

the vatican says that homosexuality in itself is not a sin because science has proven that sexual orientation is present from birth. homosexual activity, however, is considered a sin, and the pope john paul II asked that they abstain from sexual activity

this is where i get kind of upset with religion. im catholic, go to church every sunday, and im involved with campus ministry but it just kills me when people hate on gays with religion as their reason..isnt it true that God created every man good and in his image? and if a person is created gay then why does this immediately make them sinners?

AudienceOfOne wrote:

ND XC 23 wrote:

SourWorms wrote:

Love For Running wrote:While that may be true, it's still a sin

wrong, your statement suggests that god is imperfect since he creates sinful beings, and according to audience, he is perfect and hates sin. therefore it defies all logic that he would create a sinful being.

the vatican says that homosexuality in itself is not a sin because science has proven that sexual orientation is present from birth. homosexual activity, however, is considered a sin, and the pope john paul II asked that they abstain from sexual activity

this is where i get kind of upset with religion. im catholic, go to church every sunday, and im involved with campus ministry but it just kills me when people hate on gays with religion as their reason..isnt it true that God created every man good and in his image? and if a person is created gay then why does this immediately make them sinners?

True, many false christians use and attempt to manipulate religion and God to feed their bias against homosexuals. You can find these people at gay rallies holding up a "TURN 2 JESUS" sign.

I believe homosexuality is a sin, and I believe that homosexuals are not born that way. Homosexuals can be Christians and gay at the same time. I know christians that are gay.

Pinthin wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

ND XC 23 wrote:

SourWorms wrote:

Love For Running wrote:While that may be true, it's still a sin

wrong, your statement suggests that god is imperfect since he creates sinful beings, and according to audience, he is perfect and hates sin. therefore it defies all logic that he would create a sinful being.

the vatican says that homosexuality in itself is not a sin because science has proven that sexual orientation is present from birth. homosexual activity, however, is considered a sin, and the pope john paul II asked that they abstain from sexual activity

this is where i get kind of upset with religion. im catholic, go to church every sunday, and im involved with campus ministry but it just kills me when people hate on gays with religion as their reason..isnt it true that God created every man good and in his image? and if a person is created gay then why does this immediately make them sinners?

True, many false christians use and attempt to manipulate religion and God to feed their bias against homosexuals. You can find these people at gay rallies holding up a "TURN 2 JESUS" sign.

I believe homosexuality is a sin, and I believe that homosexuals are not born that way. Homosexuals can be Christians and gay at the same time. I know christians that are gay.

Why would you want to be gay and follow a god that is going to "send you to hell" anyways?

I cant wrap my head around why people think its a choice, because people love and choose to be discriminated against? Must be..

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

ND XC 23 wrote:

SourWorms wrote:

Love For Running wrote:While that may be true, it's still a sin

wrong, your statement suggests that god is imperfect since he creates sinful beings, and according to audience, he is perfect and hates sin. therefore it defies all logic that he would create a sinful being.

the vatican says that homosexuality in itself is not a sin because science has proven that sexual orientation is present from birth. homosexual activity, however, is considered a sin, and the pope john paul II asked that they abstain from sexual activity

this is where i get kind of upset with religion. im catholic, go to church every sunday, and im involved with campus ministry but it just kills me when people hate on gays with religion as their reason..isnt it true that God created every man good and in his image? and if a person is created gay then why does this immediately make them sinners?

True, many false christians use and attempt to manipulate religion and God to feed their bias against homosexuals. You can find these people at gay rallies holding up a "TURN 2 JESUS" sign.

I believe homosexuality is a sin, and I believe that homosexuals are not born that way. Homosexuals can be Christians and gay at the same time. I know christians that are gay.

Why would you want to be gay and follow a god that is going to "send you to hell" anyways?

I cant wrap my head around why people think its a choice, because people love and choose to be discriminated against? Must be..

I just said gay people can be Christians. Christians are saved. Saved people go to heaven. I believe gay people can go to heaven.

I know, that is definetly a fallacy in my opinion, I'll admit that. The closest answer I can come up with is that when I sin, I want to do it but I don't want to do it. My flesh and my spirit are fighting for control of my actions. Maybe that has something to do with it.

alex-likes-running wrote:gay ppl are fags. WHUT I WANNA B WEHN I GROUGH UP

SourWorms wrote:

Love For Running wrote:While that may be true, it's still a sin

wrong, your statement suggests that god is imperfect since he creates sinful beings, and according to audience, he is perfect and hates sin. therefore it defies all logic that he would create a sinful being.

AudienceOfOne wrote:

alex-likes-running wrote:gay ppl are fags. WHUT I WANNA B WEHN I GROUGH UPLast edited by AudienceOfOne on Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:39 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : TATOR TOTS.)

interesting.

AudienceOfOne wrote:

ND XC 23 wrote:

SourWorms wrote:

Love For Running wrote:While that may be true, it's still a sin

wrong, your statement suggests that god is imperfect since he creates sinful beings, and according to audience, he is perfect and hates sin. therefore it defies all logic that he would create a sinful being.

the vatican says that homosexuality in itself is not a sin because science has proven that sexual orientation is present from birth. homosexual activity, however, is considered a sin, and the pope john paul II asked that they abstain from sexual activity

this is where i get kind of upset with religion. im catholic, go to church every sunday, and im involved with campus ministry but it just kills me when people hate on gays with religion as their reason..isnt it true that God created every man good and in his image? and if a person is created gay then why does this immediately make them sinners?

True, many false christians use and attempt to manipulate religion and God to feed their bias against homosexuals. You can find these people at gay rallies holding up a "TURN 2 JESUS" sign.

I believe homosexuality is a sin, and I believe that homosexuals are not born that way. Homosexuals can be Christians and gay at the same time. I know christians that are gay.

alex-likes-running wrote:gay ppl are fags. WHUT I WANNA B WEHN I GROUGH UP