Audience got butthurt

just curious, but wut do athiests think about the part of the pledge of allegience that goes "...one nation under God..."? like do they skip that part when they say the pledge?

alex-likes-running wrote:just curious, but wut do athiests think about the part of the pledge of allegience that goes "...one nation under God..."? like do they skip that part when they say the pledge?

i still say it, america was founded as a christian nation despite what people may think. what is the point in arguing with the pledge of allegiance ya know.

Hey moron, there's nothing that can't ultimately be explained by science. What do you think science is, some kind of ideology? Science at its root is simply accumulated knowledge of known principles of the natural world. Science explains the physical world; you can make up whatever kind of fantasy worlds you want, but don't act like scientists are the overzealous nut-jobs and not you.

AudeinceOfOne wrote:

alex-likes-running wrote:just curious, but wut do athiests think about the part of the pledge of allegience that goes "...one nation under God..."? like do they skip that part when they say the pledge?

i still say it, america was founded as a christian nation despite what people may think. what is the point in arguing with the pledge of allegiance ya know.

The word's 'under god' were actually added in the mid 1950's after lobbying from a catholic organization. I'm sure your founding fathers would turn in their graves if they ever found out!

And Alex, in NZ we don't have a 'pledge of allegiance', but we have some oaths which are used on occasions, such as when new members of parliament are sworn in, at citizenship ceremonies for immigrants. But there are two versions, one you have to swear allegiance to God, the Queen and the Flag, and the other version you just swear allegiance to the Flag. We never say it in schools, thankfully, I'd never pledge allegiance to any country, let alone the Queen and God.

AudeinceOfOne wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

AudeinceOfOne wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

AudeinceOfOne wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Red R1der wrote:Okay I just skimmed through the entire topic. I'm so glad I didn't check that worthless post as it developed day by day.

Atleast I know I did something right if I made the 3 main ignorant atheists angry.

quite ironic that you call us ignorant when you believe that a man in the sky created everything you see today in 6 days

And you believe nothing can exist beyond what we can see.

By the way, you spelled "audience" wrong.

well, i believe wind exists, i can't see it. and i believe there are probably millions of earth like planets because it is just inevitable. but again i cannot see them. but anything beyond perception that violates science doesn't exist.

andd are you serious about now?

You know what I meant. You think anything that science can't prove can't be real, which isn't true.

except it is true...i don't get what you mean by asserting that because i cant prove it, means it exists. then by that logic, invisible pink unicorns could very well be running around inside my house and i would never know it?

so i am guessing that if i were to ask you about Vishnu, you would say that he does not exist, and is only a figment of people's imaginations?

Actually that's only by your perception. When atoms weren't discovered it didn't mean they weren't real, we just hadn't proved their existence yet.

hahahaa

everything turns into science.. its quite annoying.

I say the pledge in Spanish everyday since I'm in AP Spanish that period =]
haha

thelagwagon wrote:

AudeinceOfOne wrote:

alex-likes-running wrote:just curious, but wut do athiests think about the part of the pledge of allegience that goes "...one nation under God..."? like do they skip that part when they say the pledge?

i still say it, america was founded as a christian nation despite what people may think. what is the point in arguing with the pledge of allegiance ya know.

The word's 'under god' were actually added in the mid 1950's after lobbying from a catholic organization. I'm sure your founding fathers would turn in their graves if they ever found out!

And Alex, in NZ we don't have a 'pledge of allegiance', but we have some oaths which are used on occasions, such as when new members of parliament are sworn in, at citizenship ceremonies for immigrants. But there are two versions, one you have to swear allegiance to God, the Queen and the Flag, and the other version you just swear allegiance to the Flag. We never say it in schools, thankfully, I'd never pledge allegiance to any country, let alone the Queen and God.

That's interesting, we still have to pledge to the Queen, I'm not sure about God though. Do you guys still have a Governor General?

God is in our national anthem twice in English, (the french version came first): "True patriot love/ In all thy Son's command" and "God keep our land / Glorious and free". Personally, I like the french version better, it's a lot more patriotic.

runner_dude wrote:

thelagwagon wrote:

AudeinceOfOne wrote:

alex-likes-running wrote:just curious, but wut do athiests think about the part of the pledge of allegience that goes "...one nation under God..."? like do they skip that part when they say the pledge?

i still say it, america was founded as a christian nation despite what people may think. what is the point in arguing with the pledge of allegiance ya know.

The word's 'under god' were actually added in the mid 1950's after lobbying from a catholic organization. I'm sure your founding fathers would turn in their graves if they ever found out!

And Alex, in NZ we don't have a 'pledge of allegiance', but we have some oaths which are used on occasions, such as when new members of parliament are sworn in, at citizenship ceremonies for immigrants. But there are two versions, one you have to swear allegiance to God, the Queen and the Flag, and the other version you just swear allegiance to the Flag. We never say it in schools, thankfully, I'd never pledge allegiance to any country, let alone the Queen and God.

That's interesting, we still have to pledge to the Queen, I'm not sure about God though. Do you guys still have a Governor General?

God is in our national anthem twice in English, (the french version came first): "True patriot love/ In all thy Son's command" and "God keep our land / Glorious and free". Personally, I like the french version better, it's a lot more patriotic.

i never knew that second part laggy..how interesting.

Pinthin wrote:hahahaa

everything turns into science.. its quite annoying.

science, religion, homosexuality, drugs, or abortion basically.

BA_Sadie. wrote:

runner_dude wrote:

thelagwagon wrote:

AudeinceOfOne wrote:

alex-likes-running wrote:just curious, but wut do athiests think about the part of the pledge of allegience that goes "...one nation under God..."? like do they skip that part when they say the pledge?

i still say it, america was founded as a christian nation despite what people may think. what is the point in arguing with the pledge of allegiance ya know.

The word's 'under god' were actually added in the mid 1950's after lobbying from a catholic organization. I'm sure your founding fathers would turn in their graves if they ever found out!

And Alex, in NZ we don't have a 'pledge of allegiance', but we have some oaths which are used on occasions, such as when new members of parliament are sworn in, at citizenship ceremonies for immigrants. But there are two versions, one you have to swear allegiance to God, the Queen and the Flag, and the other version you just swear allegiance to the Flag. We never say it in schools, thankfully, I'd never pledge allegiance to any country, let alone the Queen and God.

That's interesting, we still have to pledge to the Queen, I'm not sure about God though. Do you guys still have a Governor General?

God is in our national anthem twice in English, (the french version came first): "True patriot love/ In all thy Son's command" and "God keep our land / Glorious and free". Personally, I like the french version better, it's a lot more patriotic.

i never knew that second part laggy..how interesting.

wow we don't even pledge to the queen here lol
we should though so many immigrants hardly any feeling of nationality

Adonai wrote:Hey moron, there's nothing that can't ultimately be explained by science. What do you think science is, some kind of ideology? Science at its root is simply accumulated knowledge of known principles of the natural world. Science explains the physical world; you can make up whatever kind of fantasy worlds you want, but don't act like scientists are the overzealous nut-jobs and not you.

And I'm saying science hasn't advanced far enough yet to where you can say we have, or can, figure everything out yet.

FinishingKick wrote:

AudeinceOfOne wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

AudeinceOfOne wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

AudeinceOfOne wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Red R1der wrote:Okay I just skimmed through the entire topic. I'm so glad I didn't check that worthless post as it developed day by day.

Atleast I know I did something right if I made the 3 main ignorant atheists angry.

quite ironic that you call us ignorant when you believe that a man in the sky created everything you see today in 6 days

And you believe nothing can exist beyond what we can see.

By the way, you spelled "audience" wrong.

well, i believe wind exists, i can't see it. and i believe there are probably millions of earth like planets because it is just inevitable. but again i cannot see them. but anything beyond perception that violates science doesn't exist.

andd are you serious about now?

You know what I meant. You think anything that science can't prove can't be real, which isn't true.

except it is true...i don't get what you mean by asserting that because i cant prove it, means it exists. then by that logic, invisible pink unicorns could very well be running around inside my house and i would never know it?

so i am guessing that if i were to ask you about Vishnu, you would say that he does not exist, and is only a figment of people's imaginations?

Actually that's only by your perception. When atoms weren't discovered it didn't mean they weren't real, we just hadn't proved their existence yet.

Exactly.

thelagwagon wrote:

AudeinceOfOne wrote:

alex-likes-running wrote:just curious, but wut do athiests think about the part of the pledge of allegience that goes "...one nation under God..."? like do they skip that part when they say the pledge?

i still say it, america was founded as a christian nation despite what people may think. what is the point in arguing with the pledge of allegiance ya know.

The word's 'under god' were actually added in the mid 1950's after lobbying from a catholic organization. I'm sure your founding fathers would turn in their graves if they ever found out!

No, probably not. There are references to God in the Constitution/Bill of Rights/Decalaration of Independence to God. And I'm pretty sure most historians consider most of the founding fathers to have believed in a God.

A question to the atheists, and people who believe in the big bang theory: You say the universe was formed when a ball of energy/mass, whatever, exploded and created the universe, right? Where did that ball come from?

(btw, I'm not really even trying to argue here, just want to know what you think.)

Old question, can't be answered. In order to prove the big bang theory correct, one would have to go back in time to witness it occur. In order to prove god's existence, one would have to go forward in time to their death. They seem pretty similar to me.

The constitution/bill of rights does not mention God or Christianity at all. The closest thing you have to religion in there is the first amendment.

I'd also like to point out that I have never heard of the "Declaration of Independence to God" and I'd be happy to read it if you show me a copy.

Onto my last point, the founding fathers might have believed in a God. That is spectacular. However, they were the ones who believed in separation of Church and State. I wonder what you got in U.S. History, because I got a A in high school and a B in college.

AudienceOfOne wrote:A question to the atheists, and people who believe in the big bang theory: You say the universe was formed when a ball of energy/mass, whatever, exploded and created the universe, right? Where did that ball come from?

(btw, I'm not really even trying to argue here, just want to know what you think.)

I'm fairly uneducated when it comes to the big bang theory, however I am very skeptical to the reasoning that a "God" can be eternally existent, but the universe can't.

CT Track wrote:The constitution/bill of rights does not mention God or Christianity at all. The closest thing you have to religion in there is the first amendment.

I'd also like to point out that I have never heard of the "Declaration of Independence to God" and I'd be happy to read it if you show me a copy.

Onto my last point, the founding fathers might have believed in a God. That is spectacular. However, they were the ones who believed in separation of Church and State. I wonder what you got in U.S. History, because I got a A in high school and a B in college.

In the bill of rights doesn't it say something like "all men are equal under God" or something? I'm pretty sure that's either in the bill of rights or declaration.

And who doesn't believe in separation of church and state? No one want what happened in Great Britain with their church. That's why that law was made.

Yes, it was in the Declaration of Independence. Something that has nothing to do with our government. Also might I add that it was written by one of the biggest hypocrites in American history. Thomas Jefferson supported separation of church and state, yet still advocated his own religious ideas upon everyone. The same man that also supported abolishing slavery and believed every man was equal. At the same time he was one of the wealthiest slave owners of his time. A true American hero.

AudienceOfOne wrote:A question to the atheists, and people who believe in the big bang theory: You say the universe was formed when a ball of energy/mass, whatever, exploded and created the universe, right? Where did that ball come from?

(btw, I'm not really even trying to argue here, just want to know what you think.)

I believe it is most likely a recycled version of what there was before
The big bang was more like a big bounce
The matter that makes it has been there for ever as time came hand in hand with matter

and still with you god, do you believe he made everything out of nothing? if so I'm guessing you don't believe energy can't be created or destroyed?
also im not trying to argue

CT Track wrote:Yes, it was in the Declaration of Independence. Something that has nothing to do with our government. Also might I add that it was written by one of the biggest hypocrites in American history. Thomas Jefferson supported separation of church and state, yet still advocated his own religious ideas upon everyone. The same man that also supported abolishing slavery and believed every man was equal. At the same time he was one of the wealthiest slave owners of his time. A true American hero.

Nothing to do with our government? Our government wouldn't exist if hadn't declared our independence.

Why can't you support separation of church and state and yet share you beliefs? Those do not contradict eachother, i can support government not being influenced by the church while i agree with the church.

But i agree with the slavery part. Not that it's an excuse but every one of the people back then owned slaves if they could afford them, didn't they?

Wgrt wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:A question to the atheists, and people who believe in the big bang theory: You say the universe was formed when a ball of energy/mass, whatever, exploded and created the universe, right? Where did that ball come from?

(btw, I'm not really even trying to argue here, just want to know what you think.)

I believe it is most likely a recycled version of what there was before
The big bang was more like a big bounce
The matter that makes it has been there for ever as time came hand in hand with matter

and still with you god, do you believe he made everything out of nothing? if so I'm guessing you don't believe energy can't be created or destroyed?
also im not trying to argue

I believe He made everything out of nothing, and I do believe energy cannot be created or destroyed. With that idea that energy cannot be created or destroyed is the idea that it can only be tranfed in one form to another. That is a cycle, and cycles had to start somewhere.

Sure you can support it, but if you forget. Thomas Jefferson was actually a part of the government. Shocker I know. You can't be a supporter of separation of church and state and be as contradictory as him.

And obviously our government wouldn't exist without the Declaration of Independence. Hey look at this too, our government might not exist if the Magna Carta wasn't made either. Does that still make it a direct correlation to the creation of our republic? Either way, as I said Thomas Jefferson was a hypocrite and just because he made the Declaration of Independence that way, does not mean the founding fathers would be proud of catholic lobbyists being douchebags.

CT Track wrote:Sure you can support it, but if you forget. Thomas Jefferson was actually a part of the government. Shocker I know. You can't be a supporter of separation of church and state and be as contradictory as him.

And obviously our government wouldn't exist without the Declaration of Independence. Hey look at this too, our government might not exist if the Magna Carta wasn't made either. Does that still make it a direct correlation to the creation of our republic? Either way, as I said Thomas Jefferson was a hypocrite and just because he made the Declaration of Independence that way, does not mean the founding fathers would be proud of catholic lobbyists being douchebags.

But the separation of church and state is about the government not being influenced by the church, so what is wrong with a government leader sharing his beliefs?

and when was the actual pledge of allegiance(sp?) made? and can somebody give a link on the catholic lobbyist thing? i've never heard that before.