Reason for the Season

CT Track wrote:So what you're saying is you're not Christian at all?

Wgrt wrote:my problem is how circular this argument is
all Christians are very nice > no they're not > they have to be nice to be Christians > but to be Christian all you have to do is believe in Jesus

Wgrt wrote:OK, so the pope, he isn't very nice to gay people

AudienceOfOne wrote:

CT Track wrote:So what you're saying is you're not Christian at all?

You have no idea who I am outside of this forum.

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Adonai wrote:You're still saying we should be able to tell a christian by how nice they are, which is hilariously retarded.

"Should" is the key word there. Christians should show express their faith through action and outward appearance. Christians who never do that are not Christians at all.

Adonai wrote:You're still saying we should be able to tell a christian by how nice they are, which is hilariously retarded.

CT Track wrote:Look i dun give a hoot about you christians, just don't sit there and tell me how to celebrate my holidays.

AudienceOfOne wrote:

The question then is, is telling the truth considered to be nice?

CT Track wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

CT Track wrote:So what you're saying is you're not Christian at all?

You have no idea who I am outside of this forum.

So I suppose the way you act on the forums isn't a reflection of self? Doesn't sound like such a fun game if you ask me.

Adonai wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Adonai wrote:You're still saying we should be able to tell a christian by how nice they are, which is hilariously retarded.

"Should" is the key word there. Christians should show express their faith through action and outward appearance. Christians who never do that are not Christians at all.

You just said the same exact thing again. Changing the wording of your argument isn't going to convince anyone. Again, you're saying we should be able to tell christians from non-christians by how nice they are, and if that's not what you're saying, then you aren't saying anything at all -- or at least have changed the course of the argument.

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Adonai wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Adonai wrote:You're still saying we should be able to tell a christian by how nice they are, which is hilariously retarded.

"Should" is the key word there. Christians should show express their faith through action and outward appearance. Christians who never do that are not Christians at all.

You just said the same exact thing again. Changing the wording of your argument isn't going to convince anyone. Again, you're saying we should be able to tell christians from non-christians by how nice they are, and if that's not what you're saying, then you aren't saying anything at all -- or at least have changed the course of the argument.

Yes, I think that you can tell christians from non-christian by their outward conduct, or how "nice" they are.

Christians should show express their faith through action and outward appearance. Christians who never do that are not Christians at all.

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Wgrt wrote:OK, so the pope, he isn't very nice to gay people

I don't know exactly what his position is about homosexuality, but I'm assuming he just disagrees with it.

The question then is, is telling the truth considered to be nice?

VATICAN CITY (AFP) –
A suggestion by Pope Benedict XVI that homosexuality is as much of a threat to the survival of the human race as climate change sparked outrage among gay rights campaigners on Tuesday.

"It's the latest homophobic attack by this pope," said Gustav Hofer,
co-director of a documentary on the life of a gay couple in Italy
called "Suddenly Last Winter".

"The Vatican talks about homosexuality or transsexuality as if it were
a whim, never as suffering," Hofer told AFP, adding that the Roman Catholic Church "reduces sexual orientation to the sexual act as if it had nothing to do with a person's identity."

In his end-of-year speech at the Vatican on Monday, the pope said gender theory
blurred the distinction between male and female, and he called for "an
ecology of the human being" to protect mankind "from self-destruction."

Gender theory, which Benedict referred to in English, explores how
society designates fixed roles to people based on their gender and many
gay groups see it as helpful to improving tolerance and understanding.

Amid a global financial crisis,
"does it really seem appropriate to talk about 'gender' to all these
poor folks who are unemployed or vulnerable and don't even know what
the word means?" left-wing lawmaker Paola Concia wrote in an open
letter to the pope.

"People need words of comfort," she said.

British campaigners including some priests from the Church of England also took the remarks as an attack on homosexuality.

Reverend Sharon Ferguson, chief executive of the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement, called the comments "totally irresponsible and unacceptable."

"When you have religious leaders like that making that sort of
statement, then followers feel they are justified in behaving in an
aggressive and violent way because they feel that they are doing God's
work in ridding the world of these people," she said.

Reverend Doctor Giles Fraser,
president of the pro-gay Anglican movement the Inclusive Church and
vicar of a London parish, said: "The pope is spreading fear that gay
people somehow threaten the planet, and that's just absurd.

"As always, this sort of religious homophobia will be an alibi for all
those who would do gay people harm. Can't he think of something better
to say at Christmas?" he asked.

Mark Dowd, campaign strategist at Operation Noah, the Christian
environmental group, said the remarks were "understandable but
misguided and unfortunate."

Dowd, who is gay, said: "If you study ecology seriously as any
intelligent man would do, and the pope is a fantastically intelligent
man, you realise that ecology is complex, it has all sorts of weird
interdependencies, and it is the same with human sexuality."

The pope's remarks "betray a lack of openness to the complexity of creation," Dowd said.

The Catholic Church has repeatedly spoken against gender theory, but Monday was the first time the pope referred to it directly.

"We are people like everyone else and should not be designated as sinners just because we are trans-gender," said Vladimir Luxuria, a transsexual actress and former communist lawmaker.

Monday's remarks follow hard on the heels of the Vatican's refusal to join a United Nations appeal for the universal decriminalisation of homosexuality launched on December 18 by 66 countries.

More than 80 countries have laws against homosexuality, including nine in which it is punishable by death.

The Vatican is a staunch opponent of the death penalty, but fears the proposed UN resolution would encourage gay marriage.

SourWorms wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Adonai wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Adonai wrote:You're still saying we should be able to tell a christian by how nice they are, which is hilariously retarded.

"Should" is the key word there. Christians should show express their faith through action and outward appearance. Christians who never do that are not Christians at all.

You just said the same exact thing again. Changing the wording of your argument isn't going to convince anyone. Again, you're saying we should be able to tell christians from non-christians by how nice they are, and if that's not what you're saying, then you aren't saying anything at all -- or at least have changed the course of the argument.

Yes, I think that you can tell christians from non-christian by their outward conduct, or how "nice" they are.

Sir, let me educate you,

The Aryan Brotherhood is a very "Christian" organization as is the KKK and the Nazi party. They have a very strong belief in god and a hatred for sin. In their eyes, being black or Jewish, or a minority of any sort is a sin. Therefore, by your logic, they are righteous Christians. Now we see the same in a Muslim extremist group such as Hamas, but according to you, they are heathens. Somehow, your logic fails in this department, a fact which seems to not surprise me at all.

Let me pose a question to you, what did Jesus supposedly say was the only requirement for addmitance to heaven at the final judgement?

SourWorms wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Adonai wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Adonai wrote:You're still saying we should be able to tell a christian by how nice they are, which is hilariously retarded.

"Should" is the key word there. Christians should show express their faith through action and outward appearance. Christians who never do that are not Christians at all.

You just said the same exact thing again. Changing the wording of your argument isn't going to convince anyone. Again, you're saying we should be able to tell christians from non-christians by how nice they are, and if that's not what you're saying, then you aren't saying anything at all -- or at least have changed the course of the argument.

Yes, I think that you can tell christians from non-christian by their outward conduct, or how "nice" they are.

Sir, let me educate you,

The Aryan Brotherhood is a very "Christian" organization as is the KKK and the Nazi party. They have a very strong belief in god and a hatred for sin. In their eyes, being black or Jewish, or a minority of any sort is a sin. Therefore, by your logic, they are righteous Christians. Now we see the same in a Muslim extremist group such as Hamas, but according to you, they are heathens. Somehow, your logic fails in this department, a fact which seems to not surprise me at all.

Let me pose a question to you, what did Jesus supposedly say was the only requirement for addmitance to heaven at the final judgement?

XCTrackXC wrote:I am by no means highly religious, but I agree with the original message of the thread and I agree that in general a true Christian should be and is most likely going to be a nice person. However, I don't think it's accurate to assume that either every nice person is Christian or that every Christian is nice, I have met some very not nice Christians and I have a friend that is extremely nice and is an Atheist. I also think you're all kind of beating that horse...

AudienceOfOne wrote:

Wgrt wrote:OK, so the pope, he isn't very nice to gay people

I don't know exactly what his position is about homosexuality, but I'm assuming he just disagrees with it.

The question then is, is telling the truth considered to be nice?

I mostly found the comparison to climate change offensive because I consider myself an environmentalist.

VATICAN CITY (AFP) –
A suggestion by Pope Benedict XVI that homosexuality is as much of a threat to the survival of the human race as climate change sparked outrage among gay rights campaigners on Tuesday.

"It's the latest homophobic attack by this pope," said Gustav Hofer,
co-director of a documentary on the life of a gay couple in Italy
called "Suddenly Last Winter".

"The Vatican talks about homosexuality or transsexuality as if it were
a whim, never as suffering," Hofer told AFP, adding that the Roman Catholic Church "reduces sexual orientation to the sexual act as if it had nothing to do with a person's identity."

In his end-of-year speech at the Vatican on Monday, the pope said gender theory
blurred the distinction between male and female, and he called for "an
ecology of the human being" to protect mankind "from self-destruction."

Gender theory, which Benedict referred to in English, explores how
society designates fixed roles to people based on their gender and many
gay groups see it as helpful to improving tolerance and understanding.

Amid a global financial crisis,
"does it really seem appropriate to talk about 'gender' to all these
poor folks who are unemployed or vulnerable and don't even know what
the word means?" left-wing lawmaker Paola Concia wrote in an open
letter to the pope.

"People need words of comfort," she said.

British campaigners including some priests from the Church of England also took the remarks as an attack on homosexuality.

Reverend Sharon Ferguson, chief executive of the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement, called the comments "totally irresponsible and unacceptable."

"When you have religious leaders like that making that sort of
statement, then followers feel they are justified in behaving in an
aggressive and violent way because they feel that they are doing God's
work in ridding the world of these people," she said.

Reverend Doctor Giles Fraser,
president of the pro-gay Anglican movement the Inclusive Church and
vicar of a London parish, said: "The pope is spreading fear that gay
people somehow threaten the planet, and that's just absurd.

"As always, this sort of religious homophobia will be an alibi for all
those who would do gay people harm. Can't he think of something better
to say at Christmas?" he asked.

Mark Dowd, campaign strategist at Operation Noah, the Christian
environmental group, said the remarks were "understandable but
misguided and unfortunate."

Dowd, who is gay, said: "If you study ecology seriously as any
intelligent man would do, and the pope is a fantastically intelligent
man, you realise that ecology is complex, it has all sorts of weird
interdependencies, and it is the same with human sexuality."

The pope's remarks "betray a lack of openness to the complexity of creation," Dowd said.

The Catholic Church has repeatedly spoken against gender theory, but Monday was the first time the pope referred to it directly.

"We are people like everyone else and should not be designated as sinners just because we are trans-gender," said Vladimir Luxuria, a transsexual actress and former communist lawmaker.

Monday's remarks follow hard on the heels of the Vatican's refusal to join a United Nations appeal for the universal decriminalisation of homosexuality launched on December 18 by 66 countries.

More than 80 countries have laws against homosexuality, including nine in which it is punishable by death.

The Vatican is a staunch opponent of the death penalty, but fears the proposed UN resolution would encourage gay marriage.

Wrong. They aren't real Christians. You should be able to pick out a good Christian as a good member of society. This doesn't mean you won't find other good members of society either. All (genuine) Christians are nice people, but not all nice people are genuine Christians. Simple logic. Note how I've thrown out most "Christians" with the word "genuine."

I agree with the pope that homosexuality is a sin, but comparing it to climate change was very stupid. I agree, that was uncalled for. If it were up to me though, there would be no pope.

Wrong. They aren't real Christians. You should be able to pick out a good Christian as a good member of society. This doesn't mean you won't find other good members of society either. All (genuine) Christians are nice people, but not all nice people are genuine Christians. Simple logic. Note how I've thrown out most "Christians" with the word "genuine."

CT Track wrote:

Wrong. They aren't real Christians. You should be able to pick out a good Christian as a good member of society. This doesn't mean you won't find other good members of society either. All (genuine) Christians are nice people, but not all nice people are genuine Christians. Simple logic. Note how I've thrown out most "Christians" with the word "genuine."

Alright none of this really bothered me but how do you come with the idealistics of what a true Christian really is? If you're going to say that they are not true Christians because they are not a good member of society, you're trying to tell me that you are discrediting the bible. You are telling me religion is based soley of society's laws, not God's. Ergo Bible = made up code of laws and God = your conscience.

CT Track wrote:

I agree with the pope that homosexuality is a sin, but comparing it to climate change was very stupid. I agree, that was uncalled for. If it were up to me though, there would be no pope.

You would have no say though, because you aren't a true Christian.