Change the voting age

some politicians would find that suggestion blasphemous and apalling.

runner_dude wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

runner_dude wrote:If you pay taxes, you should be able to vote. Remember that whole deal about taxation without representation?

Plenty of people under 18, including myself, have worked jobs and payed taxes. Nice try, though.

so maybe we should lower it to 16

Maybe we should.

As much as I would like to vote, many other 16 year olds I don’t think can handle that commitment. haha

+1. im 17 and while i would like to vote as well it would make it more stressful because i would research both candidates and find everything possible because i would want to be an informed voter. like pinthin said most kids our age cant handle that and for the simple fact that we are kids

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

ProtestTheZero wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Pinthin wrote:When liberals cant vote, your thinking like soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, When it comes from preventing people to vote your committing discrimination based on their thoughts. If it wasn't for liberals our country wouldn't have progressed like it has I.E SLAVERY.

Our country was founded by liberals (George Washington etc..) what they did was radical, (like liberals) . I mean they over threw a established government to create their own.

You need both liberals and republicans, w/out either of them our country would be screwed up.

They overthrew the government because it was oppressive....kinda like the democratic party today. BTW, Washington would have never supported universal healthcare and super-high taxes. He believed that government should protect the rights of the people, not that government should control every aspect of peoples' lives. He was liberal by 18th century standards, he wouldn't be considered liberal at all today...

OH I know today he wouldn't be considered liberal, but for "back then" standards he was.

What is your point then? Conservatives are good? Thanks?

Victory?

ugh no.

George Washington today or anybody back in that time, today would seem like a hardcore conservative compared to us. It doesn't change the fact he was a liberal "back then".

ergh

And the fact that he would be conservative doesn't the change the fact that he would be, well, conservative today. We're not discussing yesterday's politics we're discussing today's, and using someone who'd be conservative today undoubtedly hurts your argument.

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

ProtestTheZero wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Pinthin wrote:When liberals cant vote, your thinking like soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, When it comes from preventing people to vote your committing discrimination based on their thoughts. If it wasn't for liberals our country wouldn't have progressed like it has I.E SLAVERY.

Our country was founded by liberals (George Washington etc..) what they did was radical, (like liberals) . I mean they over threw a established government to create their own.

You need both liberals and republicans, w/out either of them our country would be screwed up.

They overthrew the government because it was oppressive....kinda like the democratic party today. BTW, Washington would have never supported universal healthcare and super-high taxes. He believed that government should protect the rights of the people, not that government should control every aspect of peoples' lives. He was liberal by 18th century standards, he wouldn't be considered liberal at all today...

OH I know today he wouldn't be considered liberal, but for "back then" standards he was.

What is your point then? Conservatives are good? Thanks?

Victory?

ugh no.

George Washington today or anybody back in that time, today would seem like a hardcore conservative compared to us. It doesn't change the fact he was a liberal "back then".

ergh

And the fact that he would be conservative doesn't the change the fact that he would be, well, conservative today. We're not discussing yesterday's politics we're discussing today's, and using someone who'd be conservative today undoubtedly hurts your argument.

You cant compare liberals and conservatives because everything has changed so much. I put this in a simple way
You cant compare runners from 1930 to those today, Things have changed too much. So if someone would understand that no, it wouldn't hurt my argument.

Fact is our country was founded on liberal beliefs.

and I know what we are discussing, that was just a point I was making.

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

ProtestTheZero wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Pinthin wrote:When liberals cant vote, your thinking like soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, When it comes from preventing people to vote your committing discrimination based on their thoughts. If it wasn't for liberals our country wouldn't have progressed like it has I.E SLAVERY.

Our country was founded by liberals (George Washington etc..) what they did was radical, (like liberals) . I mean they over threw a established government to create their own.

You need both liberals and republicans, w/out either of them our country would be screwed up.

They overthrew the government because it was oppressive....kinda like the democratic party today. BTW, Washington would have never supported universal healthcare and super-high taxes. He believed that government should protect the rights of the people, not that government should control every aspect of peoples' lives. He was liberal by 18th century standards, he wouldn't be considered liberal at all today...

OH I know today he wouldn't be considered liberal, but for "back then" standards he was.

What is your point then? Conservatives are good? Thanks?

Victory?

ugh no.

George Washington today or anybody back in that time, today would seem like a hardcore conservative compared to us. It doesn't change the fact he was a liberal "back then".

ergh

And the fact that he would be conservative doesn't the change the fact that he would be, well, conservative today. We're not discussing yesterday's politics we're discussing today's, and using someone who'd be conservative today undoubtedly hurts your argument.

You cant compare liberals and conservatives because everything has changed so much. I put this in a simple way
You cant compare runners from 1930 to those today, Things have changed too much. So if someone would understand that no, it wouldn't hurt my argument.

Fact is our country was founded on liberal beliefs.

and I know what we are discussing, that was just a point I was making.

That point is just negative towards your argument but whatever.

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

ProtestTheZero wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Pinthin wrote:When liberals cant vote, your thinking like soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, When it comes from preventing people to vote your committing discrimination based on their thoughts. If it wasn't for liberals our country wouldn't have progressed like it has I.E SLAVERY.

Our country was founded by liberals (George Washington etc..) what they did was radical, (like liberals) . I mean they over threw a established government to create their own.

You need both liberals and republicans, w/out either of them our country would be screwed up.

They overthrew the government because it was oppressive....kinda like the democratic party today. BTW, Washington would have never supported universal healthcare and super-high taxes. He believed that government should protect the rights of the people, not that government should control every aspect of peoples' lives. He was liberal by 18th century standards, he wouldn't be considered liberal at all today...

OH I know today he wouldn't be considered liberal, but for "back then" standards he was.

What is your point then? Conservatives are good? Thanks?

Victory?

ugh no.

George Washington today or anybody back in that time, today would seem like a hardcore conservative compared to us. It doesn't change the fact he was a liberal "back then".

ergh

And the fact that he would be conservative doesn't the change the fact that he would be, well, conservative today. We're not discussing yesterday's politics we're discussing today's, and using someone who'd be conservative today undoubtedly hurts your argument.

You cant compare liberals and conservatives because everything has changed so much. I put this in a simple way
You cant compare runners from 1930 to those today, Things have changed too much. So if someone would understand that no, it wouldn't hurt my argument.

Fact is our country was founded on liberal beliefs.

and I know what we are discussing, that was just a point I was making.

That point is just negative towards your argument but whatever.

oh my, I'm not going to explain this again.

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

ProtestTheZero wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Pinthin wrote:When liberals cant vote, your thinking like soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, When it comes from preventing people to vote your committing discrimination based on their thoughts. If it wasn't for liberals our country wouldn't have progressed like it has I.E SLAVERY.

Our country was founded by liberals (George Washington etc..) what they did was radical, (like liberals) . I mean they over threw a established government to create their own.

You need both liberals and republicans, w/out either of them our country would be screwed up.

They overthrew the government because it was oppressive....kinda like the democratic party today. BTW, Washington would have never supported universal healthcare and super-high taxes. He believed that government should protect the rights of the people, not that government should control every aspect of peoples' lives. He was liberal by 18th century standards, he wouldn't be considered liberal at all today...

OH I know today he wouldn't be considered liberal, but for "back then" standards he was.

What is your point then? Conservatives are good? Thanks?

Victory?

ugh no.

George Washington today or anybody back in that time, today would seem like a hardcore conservative compared to us. It doesn't change the fact he was a liberal "back then".

ergh

And the fact that he would be conservative doesn't the change the fact that he would be, well, conservative today. We're not discussing yesterday's politics we're discussing today's, and using someone who'd be conservative today undoubtedly hurts your argument.

You cant compare liberals and conservatives because everything has changed so much. I put this in a simple way
You cant compare runners from 1930 to those today, Things have changed too much. So if someone would understand that no, it wouldn't hurt my argument.

Fact is our country was founded on liberal beliefs.

and I know what we are discussing, that was just a point I was making.

That point is just negative towards your argument but whatever.

oh my, I'm not going to explain this again.

You're either going off-topic or going backwards, no good choices there.

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

ProtestTheZero wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Pinthin wrote:When liberals cant vote, your thinking like soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, When it comes from preventing people to vote your committing discrimination based on their thoughts. If it wasn't for liberals our country wouldn't have progressed like it has I.E SLAVERY.

Our country was founded by liberals (George Washington etc..) what they did was radical, (like liberals) . I mean they over threw a established government to create their own.

You need both liberals and republicans, w/out either of them our country would be screwed up.

They overthrew the government because it was oppressive....kinda like the democratic party today. BTW, Washington would have never supported universal healthcare and super-high taxes. He believed that government should protect the rights of the people, not that government should control every aspect of peoples' lives. He was liberal by 18th century standards, he wouldn't be considered liberal at all today...

OH I know today he wouldn't be considered liberal, but for "back then" standards he was.

What is your point then? Conservatives are good? Thanks?

Victory?

ugh no.

George Washington today or anybody back in that time, today would seem like a hardcore conservative compared to us. It doesn't change the fact he was a liberal "back then".

ergh

And the fact that he would be conservative doesn't the change the fact that he would be, well, conservative today. We're not discussing yesterday's politics we're discussing today's, and using someone who'd be conservative today undoubtedly hurts your argument.

You cant compare liberals and conservatives because everything has changed so much. I put this in a simple way
You cant compare runners from 1930 to those today, Things have changed too much. So if someone would understand that no, it wouldn't hurt my argument.

Fact is our country was founded on liberal beliefs.

and I know what we are discussing, that was just a point I was making.

That point is just negative towards your argument but whatever.

oh my, I'm not going to explain this again.

You're either going off-topic or going backwards, no good choices there.

mmm neither.

I think you should stop.

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

ProtestTheZero wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Pinthin wrote:When liberals cant vote, your thinking like soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, When it comes from preventing people to vote your committing discrimination based on their thoughts. If it wasn't for liberals our country wouldn't have progressed like it has I.E SLAVERY.

Our country was founded by liberals (George Washington etc..) what they did was radical, (like liberals) . I mean they over threw a established government to create their own.

You need both liberals and republicans, w/out either of them our country would be screwed up.

They overthrew the government because it was oppressive....kinda like the democratic party today. BTW, Washington would have never supported universal healthcare and super-high taxes. He believed that government should protect the rights of the people, not that government should control every aspect of peoples' lives. He was liberal by 18th century standards, he wouldn't be considered liberal at all today...

OH I know today he wouldn't be considered liberal, but for "back then" standards he was.

What is your point then? Conservatives are good? Thanks?

Victory?

ugh no.

George Washington today or anybody back in that time, today would seem like a hardcore conservative compared to us. It doesn't change the fact he was a liberal "back then".

ergh

And the fact that he would be conservative doesn't the change the fact that he would be, well, conservative today. We're not discussing yesterday's politics we're discussing today's, and using someone who'd be conservative today undoubtedly hurts your argument.

You cant compare liberals and conservatives because everything has changed so much. I put this in a simple way
You cant compare runners from 1930 to those today, Things have changed too much. So if someone would understand that no, it wouldn't hurt my argument.

Fact is our country was founded on liberal beliefs.

and I know what we are discussing, that was just a point I was making.

That point is just negative towards your argument but whatever.

oh my, I'm not going to explain this again.

You're either going off-topic or going backwards, no good choices there.

mmm neither.

I think you should stop.

If you can't compare them then there's no sense in bringing it up and it is therefore off-topic.

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

ProtestTheZero wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Pinthin wrote:When liberals cant vote, your thinking like soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, When it comes from preventing people to vote your committing discrimination based on their thoughts. If it wasn't for liberals our country wouldn't have progressed like it has I.E SLAVERY.

Our country was founded by liberals (George Washington etc..) what they did was radical, (like liberals) . I mean they over threw a established government to create their own.

You need both liberals and republicans, w/out either of them our country would be screwed up.

They overthrew the government because it was oppressive....kinda like the democratic party today. BTW, Washington would have never supported universal healthcare and super-high taxes. He believed that government should protect the rights of the people, not that government should control every aspect of peoples' lives. He was liberal by 18th century standards, he wouldn't be considered liberal at all today...

OH I know today he wouldn't be considered liberal, but for "back then" standards he was.

What is your point then? Conservatives are good? Thanks?

Victory?

ugh no.

George Washington today or anybody back in that time, today would seem like a hardcore conservative compared to us. It doesn't change the fact he was a liberal "back then".

ergh

And the fact that he would be conservative doesn't the change the fact that he would be, well, conservative today. We're not discussing yesterday's politics we're discussing today's, and using someone who'd be conservative today undoubtedly hurts your argument.

You cant compare liberals and conservatives because everything has changed so much. I put this in a simple way
You cant compare runners from 1930 to those today, Things have changed too much. So if someone would understand that no, it wouldn't hurt my argument.

Fact is our country was founded on liberal beliefs.

and I know what we are discussing, that was just a point I was making.

That point is just negative towards your argument but whatever.

oh my, I'm not going to explain this again.

You're either going off-topic or going backwards, no good choices there.

mmm neither.

I think you should stop.

If you can't compare them then there's no sense in bringing it up and it is therefore off-topic.

But I wasnt comparing them!! Someone else brought that up. I was just stating that our country was founded by liberal beliefs, then someone just had to argue about that.

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

ProtestTheZero wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Pinthin wrote:When liberals cant vote, your thinking like soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, When it comes from preventing people to vote your committing discrimination based on their thoughts. If it wasn't for liberals our country wouldn't have progressed like it has I.E SLAVERY.

Our country was founded by liberals (George Washington etc..) what they did was radical, (like liberals) . I mean they over threw a established government to create their own.

You need both liberals and republicans, w/out either of them our country would be screwed up.

They overthrew the government because it was oppressive....kinda like the democratic party today. BTW, Washington would have never supported universal healthcare and super-high taxes. He believed that government should protect the rights of the people, not that government should control every aspect of peoples' lives. He was liberal by 18th century standards, he wouldn't be considered liberal at all today...

OH I know today he wouldn't be considered liberal, but for "back then" standards he was.

What is your point then? Conservatives are good? Thanks?

Victory?

ugh no.

George Washington today or anybody back in that time, today would seem like a hardcore conservative compared to us. It doesn't change the fact he was a liberal "back then".

ergh

And the fact that he would be conservative doesn't the change the fact that he would be, well, conservative today. We're not discussing yesterday's politics we're discussing today's, and using someone who'd be conservative today undoubtedly hurts your argument.

You cant compare liberals and conservatives because everything has changed so much. I put this in a simple way
You cant compare runners from 1930 to those today, Things have changed too much. So if someone would understand that no, it wouldn't hurt my argument.

Fact is our country was founded on liberal beliefs.

and I know what we are discussing, that was just a point I was making.

That point is just negative towards your argument but whatever.

oh my, I'm not going to explain this again.

You're either going off-topic or going backwards, no good choices there.

mmm neither.

I think you should stop.

If you can't compare them then there's no sense in bringing it up and it is therefore off-topic.

But I wasnt comparing them!! Someone else brought that up. I was just stating that our country was founded by liberal beliefs, then someone just had to argue about that.

I didn't say you compared them, I was responding to the part where you said they couldn't be compared, and saying that if you believe that then why would you bring it up?

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

ProtestTheZero wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Pinthin wrote:When liberals cant vote, your thinking like soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, When it comes from preventing people to vote your committing discrimination based on their thoughts. If it wasn't for liberals our country wouldn't have progressed like it has I.E SLAVERY.

Our country was founded by liberals (George Washington etc..) what they did was radical, (like liberals) . I mean they over threw a established government to create their own.

You need both liberals and republicans, w/out either of them our country would be screwed up.

They overthrew the government because it was oppressive....kinda like the democratic party today. BTW, Washington would have never supported universal healthcare and super-high taxes. He believed that government should protect the rights of the people, not that government should control every aspect of peoples' lives. He was liberal by 18th century standards, he wouldn't be considered liberal at all today...

OH I know today he wouldn't be considered liberal, but for "back then" standards he was.

What is your point then? Conservatives are good? Thanks?

Victory?

ugh no.

George Washington today or anybody back in that time, today would seem like a hardcore conservative compared to us. It doesn't change the fact he was a liberal "back then".

ergh

And the fact that he would be conservative doesn't the change the fact that he would be, well, conservative today. We're not discussing yesterday's politics we're discussing today's, and using someone who'd be conservative today undoubtedly hurts your argument.

You cant compare liberals and conservatives because everything has changed so much. I put this in a simple way
You cant compare runners from 1930 to those today, Things have changed too much. So if someone would understand that no, it wouldn't hurt my argument.

Fact is our country was founded on liberal beliefs.

and I know what we are discussing, that was just a point I was making.

That point is just negative towards your argument but whatever.

oh my, I'm not going to explain this again.

You're either going off-topic or going backwards, no good choices there.

mmm neither.

I think you should stop.

If you can't compare them then there's no sense in bringing it up and it is therefore off-topic.

But I wasnt comparing them!! Someone else brought that up. I was just stating that our country was founded by liberal beliefs, then someone just had to argue about that.

I didn't say you compared them, I was responding to the part where you said they couldn't be compared, and saying that if you believe that then why would you bring it up?

To make a point.

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

ProtestTheZero wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Pinthin wrote:When liberals cant vote, your thinking like soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, When it comes from preventing people to vote your committing discrimination based on their thoughts. If it wasn't for liberals our country wouldn't have progressed like it has I.E SLAVERY.

Our country was founded by liberals (George Washington etc..) what they did was radical, (like liberals) . I mean they over threw a established government to create their own.

You need both liberals and republicans, w/out either of them our country would be screwed up.

They overthrew the government because it was oppressive....kinda like the democratic party today. BTW, Washington would have never supported universal healthcare and super-high taxes. He believed that government should protect the rights of the people, not that government should control every aspect of peoples' lives. He was liberal by 18th century standards, he wouldn't be considered liberal at all today...

OH I know today he wouldn't be considered liberal, but for "back then" standards he was.

What is your point then? Conservatives are good? Thanks?

Victory?

ugh no.

George Washington today or anybody back in that time, today would seem like a hardcore conservative compared to us. It doesn't change the fact he was a liberal "back then".

ergh

And the fact that he would be conservative doesn't the change the fact that he would be, well, conservative today. We're not discussing yesterday's politics we're discussing today's, and using someone who'd be conservative today undoubtedly hurts your argument.

You cant compare liberals and conservatives because everything has changed so much. I put this in a simple way
You cant compare runners from 1930 to those today, Things have changed too much. So if someone would understand that no, it wouldn't hurt my argument.

Fact is our country was founded on liberal beliefs.

and I know what we are discussing, that was just a point I was making.

That point is just negative towards your argument but whatever.

oh my, I'm not going to explain this again.

You're either going off-topic or going backwards, no good choices there.

mmm neither.

I think you should stop.

If you can't compare them then there's no sense in bringing it up and it is therefore off-topic.

But I wasnt comparing them!! Someone else brought that up. I was just stating that our country was founded by liberal beliefs, then someone just had to argue about that.

I didn't say you compared them, I was responding to the part where you said they couldn't be compared, and saying that if you believe that then why would you bring it up?

To make a point.

What point could you make with something that can't be compared to life today?

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

ProtestTheZero wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Pinthin wrote:When liberals cant vote, your thinking like soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, When it comes from preventing people to vote your committing discrimination based on their thoughts. If it wasn't for liberals our country wouldn't have progressed like it has I.E SLAVERY.

Our country was founded by liberals (George Washington etc..) what they did was radical, (like liberals) . I mean they over threw a established government to create their own.

You need both liberals and republicans, w/out either of them our country would be screwed up.

They overthrew the government because it was oppressive....kinda like the democratic party today. BTW, Washington would have never supported universal healthcare and super-high taxes. He believed that government should protect the rights of the people, not that government should control every aspect of peoples' lives. He was liberal by 18th century standards, he wouldn't be considered liberal at all today...

OH I know today he wouldn't be considered liberal, but for "back then" standards he was.

What is your point then? Conservatives are good? Thanks?

Victory?

ugh no.

George Washington today or anybody back in that time, today would seem like a hardcore conservative compared to us. It doesn't change the fact he was a liberal "back then".

ergh

And the fact that he would be conservative doesn't the change the fact that he would be, well, conservative today. We're not discussing yesterday's politics we're discussing today's, and using someone who'd be conservative today undoubtedly hurts your argument.

You cant compare liberals and conservatives because everything has changed so much. I put this in a simple way
You cant compare runners from 1930 to those today, Things have changed too much. So if someone would understand that no, it wouldn't hurt my argument.

Fact is our country was founded on liberal beliefs.

and I know what we are discussing, that was just a point I was making.

That point is just negative towards your argument but whatever.

oh my, I'm not going to explain this again.

You're either going off-topic or going backwards, no good choices there.

mmm neither.

I think you should stop.

If you can't compare them then there's no sense in bringing it up and it is therefore off-topic.

But I wasnt comparing them!! Someone else brought that up. I was just stating that our country was founded by liberal beliefs, then someone just had to argue about that.

I didn't say you compared them, I was responding to the part where you said they couldn't be compared, and saying that if you believe that then why would you bring it up?

To make a point.

What point could you make with something that can't be compared to life today?

I can’t even remember what I was trying to say anymore, I believe it was around the lines of our country was founded on liberal beliefs so that shows you need both liberalism and conservatism.

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

ProtestTheZero wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Pinthin wrote:When liberals cant vote, your thinking like soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, When it comes from preventing people to vote your committing discrimination based on their thoughts. If it wasn't for liberals our country wouldn't have progressed like it has I.E SLAVERY.

Our country was founded by liberals (George Washington etc..) what they did was radical, (like liberals) . I mean they over threw a established government to create their own.

You need both liberals and republicans, w/out either of them our country would be screwed up.

They overthrew the government because it was oppressive....kinda like the democratic party today. BTW, Washington would have never supported universal healthcare and super-high taxes. He believed that government should protect the rights of the people, not that government should control every aspect of peoples' lives. He was liberal by 18th century standards, he wouldn't be considered liberal at all today...

OH I know today he wouldn't be considered liberal, but for "back then" standards he was.

What is your point then? Conservatives are good? Thanks?

Victory?

ugh no.

George Washington today or anybody back in that time, today would seem like a hardcore conservative compared to us. It doesn't change the fact he was a liberal "back then".

ergh

And the fact that he would be conservative doesn't the change the fact that he would be, well, conservative today. We're not discussing yesterday's politics we're discussing today's, and using someone who'd be conservative today undoubtedly hurts your argument.

You cant compare liberals and conservatives because everything has changed so much. I put this in a simple way
You cant compare runners from 1930 to those today, Things have changed too much. So if someone would understand that no, it wouldn't hurt my argument.

Fact is our country was founded on liberal beliefs.

and I know what we are discussing, that was just a point I was making.

That point is just negative towards your argument but whatever.

oh my, I'm not going to explain this again.

You're either going off-topic or going backwards, no good choices there.

mmm neither.

I think you should stop.

If you can't compare them then there's no sense in bringing it up and it is therefore off-topic.

But I wasnt comparing them!! Someone else brought that up. I was just stating that our country was founded by liberal beliefs, then someone just had to argue about that.

I didn't say you compared them, I was responding to the part where you said they couldn't be compared, and saying that if you believe that then why would you bring it up?

To make a point.

What point could you make with something that can't be compared to life today?

I can’t even remember what I was trying to say anymore, I believe it was around the lines of our country was founded on liberal beliefs so that shows you need both liberalism and conservatism.

omg huge quote train.

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

ProtestTheZero wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Pinthin wrote:When liberals cant vote, your thinking like soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, When it comes from preventing people to vote your committing discrimination based on their thoughts. If it wasn't for liberals our country wouldn't have progressed like it has I.E SLAVERY.

Our country was founded by liberals (George Washington etc..) what they did was radical, (like liberals) . I mean they over threw a established government to create their own.

You need both liberals and republicans, w/out either of them our country would be screwed up.

They overthrew the government because it was oppressive....kinda like the democratic party today. BTW, Washington would have never supported universal healthcare and super-high taxes. He believed that government should protect the rights of the people, not that government should control every aspect of peoples' lives. He was liberal by 18th century standards, he wouldn't be considered liberal at all today...

OH I know today he wouldn't be considered liberal, but for "back then" standards he was.

What is your point then? Conservatives are good? Thanks?

Victory?

ugh no.

George Washington today or anybody back in that time, today would seem like a hardcore conservative compared to us. It doesn't change the fact he was a liberal "back then".

ergh

And the fact that he would be conservative doesn't the change the fact that he would be, well, conservative today. We're not discussing yesterday's politics we're discussing today's, and using someone who'd be conservative today undoubtedly hurts your argument.

You cant compare liberals and conservatives because everything has changed so much. I put this in a simple way
You cant compare runners from 1930 to those today, Things have changed too much. So if someone would understand that no, it wouldn't hurt my argument.

Fact is our country was founded on liberal beliefs.

and I know what we are discussing, that was just a point I was making.

That point is just negative towards your argument but whatever.

oh my, I'm not going to explain this again.

You're either going off-topic or going backwards, no good choices there.

mmm neither.

I think you should stop.

If you can't compare them then there's no sense in bringing it up and it is therefore off-topic.

But I wasnt comparing them!! Someone else brought that up. I was just stating that our country was founded by liberal beliefs, then someone just had to argue about that.

I didn't say you compared them, I was responding to the part where you said they couldn't be compared, and saying that if you believe that then why would you bring it up?

To make a point.

What point could you make with something that can't be compared to life today?

I can’t even remember what I was trying to say anymore, I believe it was around the lines of our country was founded on liberal beliefs so that shows you need both liberalism and conservatism.

That's not anything like today (as you said). I'm assuming the "liberals" are the patriots and the "conservatives" are the loyalists. If the scenario is completely unlike today's, then there is no sense in trying to make a point in today's politics with it. Therefore it would be off-topic.

I can also say that it's the complete opposite of what you think it is, the founding fathers would be conservative by today's standards and the loyalists would be liberal. Since you were trying to argue your point, but the argument involved a situation that is the direct opposite of what it should have been, it hurt your overall argument.

So it's either off-topic or wrong.

If the founding fathers were conservative by today's standards, then doesn't that mean that Republicans better represent the ideals on which this country was founded, and therefore deserve to be in elected office?

Recap:
1. you said liberals should be in control, and pointed to the fact that george washington was liberal as evidence
2. others pointed out that he would be considered conservative today
3. you conceded that point
4. by conceding that point, you ended up contradicting your original point about liberals being needed to improve the country, and allowed for counter points like the one I opened this post with

Conservatives need to stop supporting economic policies that work on paper but not in reality. Just look at Herbert Hoover. His strategies for dealing with the depression (pump-priming) made sense but they just didn't work. Then FDR came along and used public works projects and wellfare programs that helped get the poor back on their feet.

Now I know what you're going to argue: this opened the door for deficit spending and probably wouldn't have been effective without the convenient WWII. But now look to the future. From Reagan to Bush to Bush again, all of the economically conservative Presidents of the last few decades have made the deficit massive. Clinton was well on his way to balancing the budget, but then we had another Bush.

On the topic of taxes, tax cuts for the rich do nothing to stimulate the economy. Most American consumers are middle class, and giving a little extra spending power to those who already have huge surplusses of it isn't going to help anyone. In fact, let's pile on some taxes for the wealthy and cut taxes for the poor. The poor will be encouraged to spend and the rich won't stop spending because, let's face it, they'll still be rich.

Edit: I think I may have meant to post this in the "role of government" thread. If it's relevant here go ahead and keep it.

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

ProtestTheZero wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Pinthin wrote:When liberals cant vote, your thinking like soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, When it comes from preventing people to vote your committing discrimination based on their thoughts. If it wasn't for liberals our country wouldn't have progressed like it has I.E SLAVERY.

Our country was founded by liberals (George Washington etc..) what they did was radical, (like liberals) . I mean they over threw a established government to create their own.

You need both liberals and republicans, w/out either of them our country would be screwed up.

They overthrew the government because it was oppressive....kinda like the democratic party today. BTW, Washington would have never supported universal healthcare and super-high taxes. He believed that government should protect the rights of the people, not that government should control every aspect of peoples' lives. He was liberal by 18th century standards, he wouldn't be considered liberal at all today...

OH I know today he wouldn't be considered liberal, but for "back then" standards he was.

What is your point then? Conservatives are good? Thanks?

Victory?

ugh no.

George Washington today or anybody back in that time, today would seem like a hardcore conservative compared to us. It doesn't change the fact he was a liberal "back then".

ergh

And the fact that he would be conservative doesn't the change the fact that he would be, well, conservative today. We're not discussing yesterday's politics we're discussing today's, and using someone who'd be conservative today undoubtedly hurts your argument.

You cant compare liberals and conservatives because everything has changed so much. I put this in a simple way
You cant compare runners from 1930 to those today, Things have changed too much. So if someone would understand that no, it wouldn't hurt my argument.

Fact is our country was founded on liberal beliefs.

and I know what we are discussing, that was just a point I was making.

That point is just negative towards your argument but whatever.

oh my, I'm not going to explain this again.

You're either going off-topic or going backwards, no good choices there.

mmm neither.

I think you should stop.

If you can't compare them then there's no sense in bringing it up and it is therefore off-topic.

But I wasnt comparing them!! Someone else brought that up. I was just stating that our country was founded by liberal beliefs, then someone just had to argue about that.

I didn't say you compared them, I was responding to the part where you said they couldn't be compared, and saying that if you believe that then why would you bring it up?

To make a point.

What point could you make with something that can't be compared to life today?

I can’t even remember what I was trying to say anymore, I believe it was around the lines of our country was founded on liberal beliefs so that shows you need both liberalism and conservatism.

That's not anything like today (as you said). I'm assuming the "liberals" are the patriots and the "conservatives" are the loyalists. If the scenario is completely unlike today's, then there is no sense in trying to make a point in today's politics with it. Therefore it would be off-topic.

I can also say that it's the complete opposite of what you think it is, the founding fathers would be conservative by today's standards and the loyalists would be liberal. Since you were trying to argue your point, but the argument involved a situation that is the direct opposite of what it should have been, it hurt your overall argument.

So it's either off-topic or wrong.

I love how I make one point wrong (in your oppinoin) and everyone jumps on it and makes a huge deal about it.

OKAY W/E you dont think they were liberals, move on. I made a ton of more points then that.

funrunner wrote:Conservatives need to stop supporting economic policies that work on paper but not in reality. Just look at Herbert Hoover. His strategies for dealing with the depression (pump-priming) made sense but they just didn't work. Then FDR came along and used public works projects and wellfare programs that helped get the poor back on their feet.

Now I know what you're going to argue: this opened the door for deficit spending and probably wouldn't have been effective without the convenient WWII. But now look to the future. From Reagan to Bush to Bush again, all of the economically conservative Presidents of the last few decades have made the deficit massive. Clinton was well on his way to balancing the budget, but then we had another Bush.

On the topic of taxes, tax cuts for the rich do nothing to stimulate the economy. Most American consumers are middle class, and giving a little extra spending power to those who already have huge surplusses of it isn't going to help anyone. In fact, let's pile on some taxes for the wealthy and cut taxes for the poor. The poor will be encouraged to spend and the rich won't stop spending because, let's face it, they'll still be rich.

I don't have a big problem with someone like FDR when our economy is in real trouble, but once we have it stable the best idea would be a conservative policy. When you bring up the examples of Reagen to Bush, Bush to Bush, all of those presidents dealt with wars, which took up money. Clinton didn't, but some of his policies helped the situation. Bush has had to deal with another war so that is why our economy is down right now.

A time line would look like this:
Con-Con-Con-WAR-Temporary aid-Cons-Cons-Cons-Cons

just throwing this out there. we dont matter. whatever we vote it doesnt make a difference. i dont even get the importance of the people now because it all goes down to what the reps pick anyway.

Attitudes like that is the reason stupid shit in the government happens. Politicians know they can get away with anything because the only thing that matters is election time and them suckering the undecided voter to voting for them. If we had more people voting for the people who matter getting people out who we know do the stupid shit, the better the country will be. I am voting this presidential election yes, my vote will count for something.

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

ProtestTheZero wrote:

Pinthin wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Pinthin wrote:When liberals cant vote, your thinking like soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, When it comes from preventing people to vote your committing discrimination based on their thoughts. If it wasn't for liberals our country wouldn't have progressed like it has I.E SLAVERY.

Our country was founded by liberals (George Washington etc..) what they did was radical, (like liberals) . I mean they over threw a established government to create their own.

You need both liberals and republicans, w/out either of them our country would be screwed up.

They overthrew the government because it was oppressive....kinda like the democratic party today. BTW, Washington would have never supported universal healthcare and super-high taxes. He believed that government should protect the rights of the people, not that government should control every aspect of peoples' lives. He was liberal by 18th century standards, he wouldn't be considered liberal at all today...

OH I know today he wouldn't be considered liberal, but for "back then" standards he was.

What is your point then? Conservatives are good? Thanks?

Victory?

ugh no.

George Washington today or anybody back in that time, today would seem like a hardcore conservative compared to us. It doesn't change the fact he was a liberal "back then".

ergh

And the fact that he would be conservative doesn't the change the fact that he would be, well, conservative today. We're not discussing yesterday's politics we're discussing today's, and using someone who'd be conservative today undoubtedly hurts your argument.

You cant compare liberals and conservatives because everything has changed so much. I put this in a simple way
You cant compare runners from 1930 to those today, Things have changed too much. So if someone would understand that no, it wouldn't hurt my argument.

Fact is our country was founded on liberal beliefs.

and I know what we are discussing, that was just a point I was making.

That point is just negative towards your argument but whatever.

oh my, I'm not going to explain this again.

You're either going off-topic or going backwards, no good choices there.

mmm neither.

I think you should stop.

If you can't compare them then there's no sense in bringing it up and it is therefore off-topic.

But I wasnt comparing them!! Someone else brought that up. I was just stating that our country was founded by liberal beliefs, then someone just had to argue about that.

I didn't say you compared them, I was responding to the part where you said they couldn't be compared, and saying that if you believe that then why would you bring it up?

To make a point.

What point could you make with something that can't be compared to life today?

I can’t even remember what I was trying to say anymore, I believe it was around the lines of our country was founded on liberal beliefs so that shows you need both liberalism and conservatism.

That's not anything like today (as you said). I'm assuming the "liberals" are the patriots and the "conservatives" are the loyalists. If the scenario is completely unlike today's, then there is no sense in trying to make a point in today's politics with it. Therefore it would be off-topic.

I can also say that it's the complete opposite of what you think it is, the founding fathers would be conservative by today's standards and the loyalists would be liberal. Since you were trying to argue your point, but the argument involved a situation that is the direct opposite of what it should have been, it hurt your overall argument.

So it's either off-topic or wrong.

I love how I make one point wrong (in your oppinoin) and everyone jumps on it and makes a huge deal about it.

OKAY W/E you dont think they were liberals, move on. I made a ton of more points then that.

im going off the rails on a quote train.

If you're not going to contribute then just leave.