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    Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

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    BagoXC25
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by BagoXC25 on Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:16 am

    I think that is pretty much a good figure, except I would say 7% genetics. Let's say el g was genetically predisposed to being a good miler (vs a marathoner for instance) and ran a 3:43 which uses the maximum of his aerobic capacity and utilizes his unique muscle fiber ratio (which is most likely very close to that of which has been theorized to be optimum for a miler). A rough estimate was that out of the 7% possible genetic gain he could have, he had 6.7%. Now a person who is lacking the strong starting AC and fiber ratio (most likely close to 0% starting genetic predisposal) but trains for around 11 years (the average time it takes for an elite runner to hit their peak race), he should be able to run about a 4:02 mile. If someone can train that long with limited injuries, I doubt that they would be much slower than that.

    This was just thrown together really quick, debate it or do whatever, I'll clear it up tomorrow so I can have a break from thinking about it lol.
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by NotChangingUntilSub5 on Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:21 am

    Running 140+ mpw is a talent.
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by AudienceOfOne on Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:56 am

    ProtestTheZero wrote:Running 140+ mpw is a talent.
    yes?


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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by NotChangingUntilSub5 on Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:20 pm

    AudienceOfOne wrote:
    ProtestTheZero wrote:Running 140+ mpw is a talent.
    yes?
    So he is talent :/ It isn't like any of the other elites work any less than he does, he just happens to have the talent to run the higher volume.
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by AudienceOfOne on Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:15 pm

    but 140 mpw is also work that you have to build up to.


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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by NotChangingUntilSub5 on Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:18 pm

    AudienceOfOne wrote:but 140 mpw is also work that you have to build up to.

    Ya, but that is like saying all the other elites who can't run more than 100 mpw aren't working as hard. That isn't true, they are working as hard, they just aren't talented in such a way that they can handle 140. Luckily, they are talented enough to get 140 mpw results out of 100 mpw.

    It is just a different kind of talent, but it is still better than what any of us could do.
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by AudienceOfOne on Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:52 pm

    what are you talking about? all of the olymic marathoners could handle 140 mpw. they just don't because they run -100mpw because that is better for them.


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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by NotChangingUntilSub5 on Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:32 pm

    AudienceOfOne wrote:what are you talking about? all of the olymic marathoners could handle 140 mpw. they just don't because they run -100mpw because that is better for them.

    I seriously doubt they all could handle the extra mileage the way Sell did.

    His talent is thriving at 140 mpw, when others succeed at 100 mpw. He is able to get the same results out of higher mileage. You just said the other marathoners would get diminished results from that same mileage.

    Hence, he is talented, because he can train effectively at a higher mileage.
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by P2 on Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:38 pm

    good posting agree

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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by Wow on Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:15 pm

    Brian Sell was definitely talented. I believe he was part of a crappy high school program (and even a bad college program) so running the times he did off of less than 20 mpw is very impressive.

    You have to be either a) EXTREMELY optimistic or b) foolish or c) very naive to think that all of the people in the Olympics today got there based on hard work alone. They do work very hard but are also blessed with a large amount of natural talent.

    I don't remember which runner it was (I'm thinking Barbosa though) who was running mid to late 4s in middle school. They just showed up for the mile, and ran it in that time off of hardly any training at all. Another very talented girl was running early 6s before she even turned 10 (she was in elementary school).

    Unfortunately, though we might say this to make ourselves feel good, even if we train for the next 10 years as hard as we can, the average person will not make the Olympics, probably not even the Olympic trials.

    A quote that I believe was said to Pre by none other than a very famous coach:

    "Your belief that you have no talent is the ultimate vanity. If you have no talent
    then you have no limits, it's all an act of will. Your heart can
    probably pump more blood than anyone else's on earth, and that takes talent.
    The bones in your feet are so strong, it'd take a sledgehammer to break
    'em. Be thankful for your limits, Pre, they're about as limitless as
    they get in this life."
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by P2 on Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:55 pm

    JYoung or something wrote:Brian Sell was definitely talented. I believe he was part of a crappy high school program (and even a bad college program) so running the times he did off of less than 20 mpw is very impressive.

    You have to be either a) EXTREMELY optimistic or b) foolish or c) very naive to think that all of the people in the Olympics today got there based on hard work alone. They do work very hard but are also blessed with a large amount of natural talent.

    I don't remember which runner it was (I'm thinking Barbosa though) who was running mid to late 4s in middle school. They just showed up for the mile, and ran it in that time off of hardly any training at all. Another very talented girl was running early 6s before she even turned 10 (she was in elementary school).

    Unfortunately, though we might say this to make ourselves feel good, even if we train for the next 10 years as hard as we can, the average person will not make the Olympics, probably not even the Olympic trials.

    A quote that I believe was said to Pre by none other than a very famous coach:

    "Your belief that you have no talent is the ultimate vanity. If you have no talent
    then you have no limits, it's all an act of will. Your heart can
    probably pump more blood than anyone else's on earth, and that takes talent.
    The bones in your feet are so strong, it'd take a sledgehammer to break
    'em. Be thankful for your limits, Pre, they're about as limitless as
    they get in this life."
    so my dreams of being an elite someday are pretty much done before they were born?
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by NotChangingUntilSub5 on Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:56 pm

    Probably, TBQH.

    You don't find elites who aren't immensely talented.
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by P2 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:50 am

    dude whats the point then? i might as well go back to football.
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by Running With Scissors on Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:36 am

    years of hard work will make you really good even without the good genes
    years of hard work with the genes will make you elite


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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by futureNIKErunner on Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:05 am

    Running With Scissors wrote:years of hard work will make you really good even without the good genes
    years of hard work with the genes will make you elite

    how do u know if u have the genes or not though??
    just because your parents or grandparents didnt participate in sports after highschool
    means u dont have any idea of how they could have done.
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by runner_dude on Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:43 am

    AudienceOfOne wrote:what are you talking about? all of the olymic marathoners could handle 140 mpw. they just don't because they run -100mpw because that is better for them.

    Most of them are running 120+ mpw. In Gebresselassie's build up to his WR in the marathon, he peaked at almost 160 mpw.
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by NotChangingUntilSub5 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:33 pm

    futureNIKErunner wrote:
    Running With Scissors wrote:years of hard work will make you really good even without the good genes
    years of hard work with the genes will make you elite

    how do u know if u have the genes or not though??
    just because your parents or grandparents didnt participate in sports after highschool
    means u dont have any idea of how they could have done.
    The secret is not worrying about it.

    You are ridiculously insecure if you need to validate your worth as a runner in relation to others. Run because you like to run, and then, if you are going to be elite, you will be, if not you won't. You will never make it if you only run because you want to be elite.
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by CT Track on Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:35 pm

    Speaks the truth my friend.
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by AudienceOfOne on Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:55 pm

    i do believe a person can get pretty dang good at running with a lot of hard work. just not at a professionally-elite level. it would just take time, so join an elite track club or something when you get out of college. just don't give up when you can't go pro.


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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by P2 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:08 pm

    so is ilbrie gone yet?
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by AudienceOfOne on Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:26 pm

    P2 wrote:so is ilbrie gone yet?
    hasn't come back from what i'm aware of.


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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by P2 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:42 pm

    nice lets keep it that way.
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by TnF_T on Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:03 pm

    WAY OFF TOPIC BUT
    http://track.flocasts.org/sellyoursellf/main
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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by AudienceOfOne on Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:20 pm

    TnF_T wrote:WAY OFF TOPIC BUT
    http://track.flocasts.org/sellyoursellf/main
    lol


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    Re: Brian Sell-Talent or Hard work?

    Post by BagoXC25 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:18 pm

    I don't agree that being able to run at 140 mpw is a talent. If anything, it is a curse that he is only as good as the other marathoners who train at 100 mpw. Dathan trains around there, and hall trains around 120. Not to mention, if I built up 15 extra miles every year, I could be there in just under 5 years safely. My highest mileage before this year was 45, maybe 50, and now I'm at 60 and it isn't even hard. I felt the best I did all summer after my 55 mile week, which was my new record at the time.

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