Here Is a Weightlifting Plan For Runners

fixed most of it

FK wrote:

Trackaholic wrote:

silly runner:) wrote:thanks. but it's weightlifting. sorry. it was bothering me. no offense. lol.

um, what?

sorry my post on wieghtlifting bothered you, ill be sure to remove all offensive material right away, including all the porno.

I think she meant that you spelled the title wrong.

not just the title, I believe I misspelled every instance of weight.

woops.

Trackaholic wrote:

lol, thats my favorite fail picture. I like this one aswell, but its not quite as funny:

their both really good

oh no big deal. ha.

No human on earth can move their legs as fast as their arms. So why would you want to increase the speed that your arms can move at?

Weight lifting does improve your form and over all running, but your argument that it helps you go faster by moving your arms faster is invalid.

no, guys. trust me try running with your arms at a 180 and not working them. its much easier at 90 degrees right? thats cause your arms are helping in moving forward by pushing your leg. tracko is completely right. its a conjoined action.

HXC_Runner2012 wrote:No human on earth can move their legs as fast as their arms. So why would you want to increase the speed that your arms can move at?

Weight lifting does improve your form and over all running, but your argument that it helps you go faster by moving your arms faster is invalid.

are you fucking serious? source? reference? FAIL.
A junior high punk like you just steps up and is like "umm uh no I dont think that um your arms got nuthin' to do with yer legs, im pretty sure yer legs are doing all the work cause ya know its the legs thats a-movin not yer arms"

Come back when your a reputable physiologist with at least a bachelors degree. I am afraid about, um, 100% of all physiologists would disagree with you? yea that sounds about right.

Lifting upper body gives you strength in your upper arms, when a runner is rounding the the final lap of the mile and his arms start to cramp up like a bug and his shoulders tighten up and his arms burn with lactic acid....thats because his arms are weak. Once the lactic acid overpowers the arms and slows them down, the legs will slow down as well. FACT. This is not a speculation HXC. The rate of turnover is DIRECTLY related to the strength and "turnover" of the arms. While the arms do not move as fast as the legs themselves, there speed is RELATIVE to that of the legs.

In the end, if the arms cramp up and the shoulder muscles tighten because you thought you were so smart by skipping out on that upperbody lifting, your legs WILL slow down.

P2 wrote:no, guys. trust me try running with your arms at a 180 and not working them. its much easier at 90 degrees right? thats cause your arms are helping in moving forward by pushing your leg. tracko is completely right. its a conjoined action.

Im pretty sure he was talking about rate of turnover, each leg hits about 90 steps per minute while running, both legs combined is 180. Thus, your rate of turnover. He was not talking about the angle of your forearms. but thanks anyway.

God damn, I could come on this website and make a topic about how fire is hot. And I would still end up getting some snotty know it all to post and be all like "Umm no no, scienctist have determined that uh, durrr, fire is actually cold, um yeah I learned that in math class so uh your wrong noob"

P2 wrote:no, guys. trust me try running with your arms at a 180 and not working them. its much easier at 90 degrees right? thats cause your arms are helping in moving forward by pushing your leg. tracko is completely right. its a conjoined action.

That could quite possibly be the stupidest post I've ever read. You need to move your arms when you run, but it's because of balance, not because you are somehow pushing yourself forward or pushing your leg when you run. And I'm not saying tracko is wrong, but I do think he is overstating the need for arm strength.

Trackaholic wrote:God damn, I could come on this website and make a topic about how fire is hot. And I would still end up getting some snotty know it all to post and be all like "Umm no no, scienctist have determined that uh, durrr, fire is actually cold, um yeah I learned that in math class so uh your wrong noob"

i lol'd hahah

Trackaholic wrote:God damn, I could come on this website and make a topic about how fire is hot. And I would still end up getting some snotty know it all to post and be all like "Umm no no, scienctist have determined that uh, durrr, fire is actually cold, um yeah I learned that in math class so uh your wrong noob"

Tracko, I think your lifting program is a good one, but I have two problems:

1. You have plenty of upper body/arm exercises, but only 3 core exercises, which is arguably the most important set of muscles for runners to work on. A comprehensive core program can contain well over 10 exercises, some of which include the biceps (pull-ups) and triceps (push-ups).

2. (This is the big one.) You are twisting the words of prominent physiologists to agree with things you already believe. Yes arms are used in running, but I'm pretty sure Jack Daniels specifically says in his book that arms should be used for balance, not for power. You also say people should not question you when they don't have a degree in physiology. Do YOU have a degree in physiology? No. Does going to a camp for a week make you an expert on physiology? No. You generally know what you're talking about, and we could do a lot worse than listen to you, but we deserve a lot more credit. We're not just shooting in the dark.

funrunner wrote:

P2 wrote:no, guys. trust me try running with your arms at a 180 and not working them. its much easier at 90 degrees right? thats cause your arms are helping in moving forward by pushing your leg. tracko is completely right. its a conjoined action.

That could quite possibly be the stupidest post I've ever read. You need to move your arms when you run, but it's because of balance, not because you are somehow pushing yourself forward or pushing your leg when you run. And I'm not saying tracko is wrong, but I do think he is overstating the need for arm strength.

Not really, pretty much every elite runner save for the oldies (who were before the time when training methods for running were still largely speculative.) is pretty strong looking upper body wise. Even the marathoners. Save for hicham, but his whole body is a toothpick so that doesnt really count.

I mean, look at these guys:



American record holder in the mile everyone:


American record holder in the two:


These guys are by no means "jacked" in comparison to sprinters of course. But you have to admit, runners dont get that kind of muscle without hitting the weights. Running is an act which drastically increases rate of catabolism.

Now lets look into marathoners, ritz is not too shabby:


Now you might say, WTF? ritz is a twig! what the hell are you talking about. But Marathoners lift too, because if ritz did not, given the mileage he does on a daily basis, ritz would look like this eventually:



umm, not a very good example I know, all the other images I found googling anorexia were a little too gross. but you get the point. Upperbody is very important for runners. Eventually all that muscle will get eaten by catabolism, and your times will suffer tremendously from it. Running is not an action which uses the legs alone.

funrunner wrote:

Trackaholic wrote:God damn, I could come on this website and make a topic about how fire is hot. And I would still end up getting some snotty know it all to post and be all like "Umm no no, scienctist have determined that uh, durrr, fire is actually cold, um yeah I learned that in math class so uh your wrong noob"

Tracko, I think your lifting program is a good one, but I have two problems:

1. You have plenty of upper body/arm exercises, but only 3 core exercises, which is arguably the most important set of muscles for runners to work on. A comprehensive core program can contain well over 10 exercises, some of which include the biceps (pull-ups) and triceps (push-ups).

2. (This is the big one.) You are twisting the words of prominent physiologists to agree with things you already believe. Yes arms are used in running, but I'm pretty sure Jack Daniels specifically says in his book that arms should be used for balance, not for power. You also say people should not question you when they don't have a degree in physiology. Do YOU have a degree in physiology? No. Does going to a camp for a week make you an expert on physiology? No. You generally know what you're talking about, and we could do a lot worse than listen to you, but we deserve a lot more credit. We're not just shooting in the dark.

1) yes, the workout is lacking core exercises, thats why I added "abdominal workout of your preference" into the number 3 slot. This workout, save for that abdominal amendment. was not constructed by me but by Westcott, a reputable physiologist who does deal with runners as well as the army, navy, etc. But yes i know core is the most important for runners, I do suggest everyone fill in that number 3 slot with a rather strenous core workout.

2) this all stems from my example with sprinters, I am not trying to say runners need uper body for power! I agree with you on the balance. I dont think I even used the term power. My example with the sprinters was just to show that the action of running includes alot of movement of the arms. i was not proposing that distance guys be pumping there arms like crazy, or that they focus on buffing up. Besides, this workout is too light to buff up anyway. You think a few bicep curls, some bar dips and chin ups are going to produce massive guns? think again. This workout was contructed to keep runners from getting injured, and to lend towards hypertrophy of the muscles. NOT to get you looking like the next 50 cent!

*sigh* just for once I would like to be able to simply say somethign without getting harrassed. If I said the sky was blue, would people argue with me "No, I think its more of a periwinkle color, or maybe a brandeis blue? Nah, I think its royal blue, or how about cerulean?"

nowai the sky is sky blue silly

oy.

Ok, tracko, I think we both agree on the meat of this topic, so I'll leave it at this. That looks like a good program if you add some core. I'll probably try to incorporate some of it.

ty

Trackaholic wrote:This question is raised every time runners are told to do upper body.

Do the following:

1) Stand in place
2) Now jog very quickly, as fast as you can, in place
3) now stop
4) Now jog in place quickly with your legs, but keep your arms moving very slowly. You will find its impossible to attain the same speed as before.
5)Now stop
6)Now jog in place really slowly, but move your arms really fast
Not the same is it?

People tend to believe that all running power comes from the legs, the truth is its a group effort of both the hands and feet. The right arm works with the left leg, and the left arm works with the right leg.

Look at tyson gay or any 100m sprinter, when they race the 100m, their arms are pumping like crazy. There is a reason for this.

Ya, our track coach last year always told us to pump our arms hard when we ran, and i found my legs going faster the harder/faster i pumped my arms.

--But those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles. They will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.
Isaiah 40:31

...just dont pump your arms like crazy unless your sprinting or kicking....

Trackaholic wrote:

HXC_Runner2012 wrote:No human on earth can move their legs as fast as their arms. So why would you want to increase the speed that your arms can move at?

Weight lifting does improve your form and over all running, but your argument that it helps you go faster by moving your arms faster is invalid.

are you fucking serious? source? reference? FAIL.
A junior high punk like you just steps up and is like "umm uh no I dont think that um your arms got nuthin' to do with yer legs, im pretty sure yer legs are doing all the work cause ya know its the legs thats a-movin not yer arms"

Come back when your a reputable physiologist with at least a bachelors degree. I am afraid about, um, 100% of all physiologists would disagree with you? yea that sounds about right.

Lifting upper body gives you strength in your upper arms, when a runner is rounding the the final lap of the mile and his arms start to cramp up like a bug and his shoulders tighten up and his arms burn with lactic acid....thats because his arms are weak. Once the lactic acid overpowers the arms and slows them down, the legs will slow down as well. FACT. This is not a speculation HXC. The rate of turnover is DIRECTLY related to the strength and "turnover" of the arms. While the arms do not move as fast as the legs themselves, there speed is RELATIVE to that of the legs.

In the end, if the arms cramp up and the shoulder muscles tighten because you thought you were so smart by skipping out on that upperbody lifting, your legs WILL slow down.

Try moving your legs as fast as your arms can go while holding a decent stride length. You can't (or atleast I can't). So why would you want to increase the speed that your arms can go at, while your legs can't even hit the first speed to begin with?

And I did read it somewhere. Hang on I'll find it.

I'm not saying strength training isn't good for runners, it obviously is. It's just that trying to increase the speed your arms can go sounds like a dumb idea to me.