life is unfair

i was wondering why some teams are so good. is it because they have a really good coach who gives them good workouts and high mileage and motivates them, or because the team manages to attract a lot of really good runners? (ie if i was at a nationally ranked school would i be faster lol)
to be really philosophical, do the runners make the team, or does the team make the runner?

anyway, i was just curious what people thought.
sorry if this is a noob question

hannah wrote:i was wondering why some teams are so good. is it because they have a really good coach who gives them good workouts and high mileage and motivates them, or because the team manages to attract a lot of really good runners? (ie if i was at a nationally ranked school would i be faster lol)
to be really philosophical, do the runners make the team, or does the team make the runner?

anyway, i was just curious what people thought.
sorry if this is a noob question

The team definitely makes the runner. Look at FK's team, it's not like some of the most talented runners in the country just happen to go there.

With most legit teams, you'll almost always see them running together. So I think the coach doesn't make the team as much as the team itself does.

HXC_ wrote:

hannah wrote:i was wondering why some teams are so good. is it because they have a really good coach who gives them good workouts and high mileage and motivates them, or because the team manages to attract a lot of really good runners? (ie if i was at a nationally ranked school would i be faster lol)
to be really philosophical, do the runners make the team, or does the team make the runner?

anyway, i was just curious what people thought.
sorry if this is a noob question

The team definitely makes the runner. Look at FK's team, it's not like some of the most talented runners in the country just happen to go there.

With most legit teams, you'll almost always see them running together. So I think the coach doesn't make the team as much as the team itself does.

I think for one there's just a lot of talent in this section. Look at the girl's side: Burnt Hills, Saratoga, Queensbury, and Shen all nationally ranked. Then there's Saratoga who won the boys NC and Shen who's been up there a few times on the boy's side. My school is simply the biggest school in a talented region. If you think about it some schools are always going to be better than others talent-wise, there's no way with the thousands of high schools we have in the country that they could all be on the exact same level.

You just need 10 guys that are skinny and want to be the fastest they can be. The good teams have 7 or more of the guys. The ok teams have 2 or 3 of those guys. The bad teams have 1 or none of those type of guys.

I think the team makes the runner. Since I started running I was picking people that I had to beat in practice. As I got faster I kept pick new and faster people until I was the fastest. Since that time I haven't gotten faster.

I personnally think that it's the runners that make the team. If you get a good group that wants to do well and is willing to work hard, there's no stopping them. It has to come within a runner, and from there, within the team for them to get the desire to succeed.

Hurdle-Gurl wrote:I personnally think that it's the runners that make the team. If you get a good group that wants to do well and is willing to work hard, there's no stopping them. It has to come within a runner, and from there, within the team for them to get the desire to succeed.

http://tullyrunners.com/Articles/ArgyleBreakup.htm
http://tullyrunners.com/Articles/NewBlood.htm (go down about 3/4 of the page to the part about 7th graders)

You need both. Even the most dedicated group needs a good coach to take them to the top level. Conversely, the best coach in the world couldn't win shit if his runners were all lazy, untalented people.

Team makes the runners.

A good runner or two can only take a group of people so far, but six people can take one runner very far. If that makes sense.

runner_dude wrote:You need both. Even the most dedicated group needs a good coach to take them to the top level. Conversely, the best coach in the world couldn't win shit if his runners were all lazy, untalented people.

I agree. A good coach, a talented pool (and even better, a talented group that comes out), and runners who want to win are the keys to success in high school.

It's really all about atmosphere

My freshman year i did not run xc, we had a very talented team however that failed going to state running an average of like 18:38 at the regional course

Track came around and there wasn't a team atmosphere and we didn't enjoy a lot of success.

Me and a fellow freshman (who had run 19:30 in XC) joined a summer track club, he ended up running a 2:05 800 and I broke 5 for the mile. We started training seriously for the upcoming XC season. Also, the upperclassmen did their first summer training ever.

XC time trials came around. Me and fellow sophmore go 3 and 4 in the scrimmage he ran 17:24 I was 17:36. We were 1 and two on our team. Team wins first meet in 8 years. Everyone knows we have something special going and train like no team has before, as a team with a goal. Regionals comes and our top five average 17:3x and we qualify the first team at our school ever.

four of the top seven was seniors. #3 was a junior. 1+2 were soph. only the sophmores and #4 senior are going to run track :/ others don't want to train...they reached their goals

FinishingKick wrote:

Hurdle-Gurl wrote:I personnally think that it's the runners that make the team. If you get a good group that wants to do well and is willing to work hard, there's no stopping them. It has to come within a runner, and from there, within the team for them to get the desire to succeed.

http://tullyrunners.com/Articles/ArgyleBreakup.htm
http://tullyrunners.com/Articles/NewBlood.htm (go down about 3/4 of the page to the part about 7th graders)

What's your point?

Hurdle-Gurl wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Hurdle-Gurl wrote:I personnally think that it's the runners that make the team. If you get a good group that wants to do well and is willing to work hard, there's no stopping them. It has to come within a runner, and from there, within the team for them to get the desire to succeed.

http://tullyrunners.com/Articles/ArgyleBreakup.htm
http://tullyrunners.com/Articles/NewBlood.htm (go down about 3/4 of the page to the part about 7th graders)

What's your point?

You said there was no stopping dedicated runners, so I pointed out an example that disproves your point.

FinishingKick wrote:

Hurdle-Gurl wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Hurdle-Gurl wrote:I personnally think that it's the runners that make the team. If you get a good group that wants to do well and is willing to work hard, there's no stopping them. It has to come within a runner, and from there, within the team for them to get the desire to succeed.

http://tullyrunners.com/Articles/ArgyleBreakup.htm
http://tullyrunners.com/Articles/NewBlood.htm (go down about 3/4 of the page to the part about 7th graders)

What's your point?

You said there was no stopping dedicated runners, so I pointed out an example that disproves your point.

Oh! Well I was just saying it like if you have a team of runners that are willing to give it their all, there will be success. But thanks for trying to prove me wrong.

Hurdle-Gurl wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Hurdle-Gurl wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Hurdle-Gurl wrote:I personnally think that it's the runners that make the team. If you get a good group that wants to do well and is willing to work hard, there's no stopping them. It has to come within a runner, and from there, within the team for them to get the desire to succeed.

http://tullyrunners.com/Articles/ArgyleBreakup.htm
http://tullyrunners.com/Articles/NewBlood.htm (go down about 3/4 of the page to the part about 7th graders)

What's your point?

You said there was no stopping dedicated runners, so I pointed out an example that disproves your point.

Oh! Well I was just saying it like if you have a team of runners that are willing to give it their all, there will be success. But thanks for trying to prove me wrong.

It's not like I was trying to prove you wrong. When I read your post I immediately thought of that article.

FinishingKick wrote:

Hurdle-Gurl wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Hurdle-Gurl wrote:

FinishingKick wrote:

Hurdle-Gurl wrote:I personnally think that it's the runners that make the team. If you get a good group that wants to do well and is willing to work hard, there's no stopping them. It has to come within a runner, and from there, within the team for them to get the desire to succeed.

http://tullyrunners.com/Articles/ArgyleBreakup.htm
http://tullyrunners.com/Articles/NewBlood.htm (go down about 3/4 of the page to the part about 7th graders)

What's your point?

You said there was no stopping dedicated runners, so I pointed out an example that disproves your point.

Oh! Well I was just saying it like if you have a team of runners that are willing to give it their all, there will be success. But thanks for trying to prove me wrong.

It's not like I was trying to prove you wrong. When I read your post I immediately thought of that article.

oh ok...sorry. =)

once a team does work to get good they attract good runners..cvca girls team for example recruits and everyone knows but their good so its not like they can even help it if i was like state champ or something i wouldn't run in my crappy dying program i would transfer to a school with a good running program.

so once their good then they usually stay good for a while because of the attraction..

BA_Sadie. wrote:once a team does work to get good they attract good runners..cvca girls team for example recruits and everyone knows but their good so its not like they can even help it if i was like state champ or something i wouldn't run in my crappy dying program i would transfer to a school with a good running program.

I personally have never heard of "cvca." Everyone says we recruit but it's not true.

BA_Sadie. wrote:once a team does work to get good they attract good runners..cvca girls team for example recruits and everyone knows but their good so its not like they can even help it if i was like state champ or something i wouldn't run in my crappy dying program i would transfer to a school with a good running program.

i didn't know cvca recruited? isn't that against OHSAA regulations.

FinishingKick wrote:

BA_Sadie. wrote:once a team does work to get good they attract good runners..cvca girls team for example recruits and everyone knows but their good so its not like they can even help it if i was like state champ or something i wouldn't run in my crappy dying program i would transfer to a school with a good running program.

I personally have never heard of "cvca." Everyone says we recruit but it's not true.

maybe not recruit but appeal to good runners

AudienceOfOne wrote:

BA_Sadie. wrote:once a team does work to get good they attract good runners..cvca girls team for example recruits and everyone knows but their good so its not like they can even help it if i was like state champ or something i wouldn't run in my crappy dying program i would transfer to a school with a good running program.

i didn't know cvca recruited? isn't that against OHSAA regulations.

yeppp.

ya, i think the team def. makes up the runner. When you are surrounded by people who continually life you up and encourage you, and when you have coaches that really care about you then it gives you something to work for. like my old coach, he never expected anything out of the ordinary from us, but when we didnt win league finals (after being champs for the girs 2 yrs. in a row) we werer upset in ourselves for letting him down..even though he never held us up to it.
sorry..that was kinda long, and im not sure if it made sense..

It's obviously a mix between the coach and the athletes, but school size makes a huge difference. The best schools in Connecticut are all big schools. There are some smaller schools that are good, but the best is Danbury. Danbury, being probably the biggest school in the state has kids from everywhere to bring in athletes. Also bigger schools tend to have bigger budgets. Danbury has state of the art facilities and access to pools and aqua jogging areas and a very good track.

To bring a different perspective on the same example, the coach means a lot more than the athlete. There can be a lot of talent at a school, but some kids won't even go out for the team if the coach isn't respected or credible. If a coach can get his athletes to believe and provide the best training possible it goes a long way. When coaches basically tell you to go out and run, results pretty much depend on the kids. But when a coach can get you to do all the little things right, the athletes have to spend less time stressing the big things and can focus on a few main goals.

okay. thank you guys for all of the responses