GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

ok so i run a 3 mile race every thursday at 7 PM, and my times have gotten progressively worse. i know it's just the summer but it still makes me worry what the season will be like. on like the second race i ran an 18:03 and today i ran an 18:33. BTW, there was a 4:19 miler and a D1 college runner that only got like 17:40 at this race, just to show you i don't suck that bad. but anyways, it could be the heat or the mileage increase but it's buggin the crap outa me. oh and another guy i usually beat from my school beat me by 1.5 seconds today, which is bugging the crap outa me too.

i have another problem too, i've been doing XC conditioning in the mornings, and that goes up to when school starts. but official practice starts on the 4rth. my coach wants me to go to his official practice. if i JUST do that, then i won't get enough mileage. so i'd have to do 2 a days, which i'm completely fine with. but here's the problem: if i run conditioning in the morning, that's be atleast 9 miles due to the fact that i run there. add on the official practice, which would be 5-8 miles, i'd be doing 14-17 miles a day. WAY TOO MUCH. i've been doing about 12 miles a day with a 3 mile rest day. i don't think i could handle 14-17 mpd without getting injured.

advise?

How many mpw are you running right now? 70-80? What was the highest you went before this? Also, keep in mind some people don't try completely on some runs, they could have just been taking it easy.

From what you've said though, it sounds like you've been overtraining. A lot of the time if you get into high mileage grounds that you haven't really approached before, that tends to happen. It can really **** your season over, it sucks. Even if you feel like you've gotten a great base and you should be running faster, somehow your times don't show it. It's a lot better just to take it easier on the mileage but stay more consistent (vs. higher mileage and then injury/burnout). There's still months to go before the season ends anyway.

Looking at your PRs, it seems a little excessive to run 70+ mpw. In cross country, I would typically run 15-16 min 5ks on the courses (though granted, I'm a mid distance runner) and this would be off of 40-60 mpw over the summer. I feel like I could have run more, but I'm glad I didn't get injured. I kept my mileage consistently at that level for a while, and so I didn't feel tired going into races etc.

Another thing is that when you're running high mileage as a high schooler, a lot of the time you can burn out (obviously.. just take a look at Magness). Like I said, you may want to take it a little easier on the mileage, though the important thing is to be consistent. I would have said that it might have just been a bad day, but it seems like you're progressively getting worse. Sometimes, you might just need to take a mental break.. like stop running for a few days and bike/swim, whatever. You'll come back to running a lot more refreshed and hopefully not as fatigued.

To the second part, why do you need to run at least 9 miles in the morning? Wouldn't you run on your own in the morning, meaning you could run however many miles you wanted?

What you must understand about base training is that it messes up your LT while building aerobic capacity. Your vo2 is also diminished during the summer, simply because it's not being trained. Also, easy miles reduce the elasticity in your muscles...they just don't have their normal explosiveness, right? These things will mess up your racing temporarily. But in the long term, a big base helps you out. I remember this spring when your 2 mile pr was dropping like a rock, but I wasn't surprised. You had done big miles in the summer beforehand and were finally getting benefits. You WILL see the results for the work you put in.

The body responds to stress. Period. You can not run 70 mpw without your body responding in some way.

on both ^

Once your mileage comes down in the fall for racing season, and you add in Intervals, you'll have one hell of a peak. Keep plugging away. As for the really high mileage, try biking to conditioning, or run on your own in the mornings, or talk to your coach about it.

dont worry about it too much now. its summer so its a good thing you arent peaking now

Wow wrote:How many mpw are you running right now? 70-80? What was the highest you went before this? Also, keep in mind some people don't try completely on some runs, they could have just been taking it easy.

From what you've said though, it sounds like you've been overtraining. A lot of the time if you get into high mileage grounds that you haven't really approached before, that tends to happen. It can really **** your season over, it sucks. Even if you feel like you've gotten a great base and you should be running faster, somehow your times don't show it. It's a lot better just to take it easier on the mileage but stay more consistent (vs. higher mileage and then injury/burnout). There's still months to go before the season ends anyway.

Looking at your PRs, it seems a little excessive to run 70+ mpw. In cross country, I would typically run 15-16 min 5ks on the courses (though granted, I'm a mid distance runner) and this would be off of 40-60 mpw over the summer. I feel like I could have run more, but I'm glad I didn't get injured. I kept my mileage consistently at that level for a while, and so I didn't feel tired going into races etc.

Another thing is that when you're running high mileage as a high schooler, a lot of the time you can burn out (obviously.. just take a look at Magness). Like I said, you may want to take it a little easier on the mileage, though the important thing is to be consistent. I would have said that it might have just been a bad day, but it seems like you're progressively getting worse. Sometimes, you might just need to take a mental break.. like stop running for a few days and bike/swim, whatever. You'll come back to running a lot more refreshed and hopefully not as fatigued.

To the second part, why do you need to run at least 9 miles in the morning? Wouldn't you run on your own in the morning, meaning you could run however many miles you wanted?

i'm running about 75-80mpw right now. this winter my mileage topped at 74 miles a week, but it only averaged about 65. so i just didn't jump straight into this, i've been building up. in the morning i run to conditioning practice and then back. 3 miles to/from. i could be overtraining, and if i don't break 17 this season, i'll know it lol.

Hey where r u racing'
is it in Van cortlandt park in NY
just wondering cuz we have the thursday races at 7 too

Another thing to look at is how fast you run your miles. I would do a lot of my runs during base as slow as 7:00 pace, and I know a 4:03 guy and a 3:58 guy who both do their easy runs 6:30-7:00 pace, which is obviously very slow for both of them. Basically, take your easy days easy. There's no harm in throwing in a few races once in a while though (or tempos), just to get your body used to the speed.. but whenever you do that, you typically usually run around the same time or faster (during base period), unless you're really tired/did a hard workout the day before.

By the way, have you had any injury problems in the past?

Don't worry about over-training. You said you've been building up so you are probably fine.

For the 3 mile races is it always the same course? And how did you feel during the races? An 18:03 to 18:33 isn't that bad of a drop especially since the heat has been getting worse. I wouldn't be that worried unless you went to like 19:30 or something.

Also, for school practice I don't see what's wrong if you do your 14-17 mile days. Nothing is too big if you build up to it. However, if you really are that nervous that you'll get injured, maybe don't run home from conditioning practice or something to keep the mileage lower.

Btw this is random but if your times do keep dropping drastically make sure you aren't sick or something. My spring track season was terrible. I had a 2:12 800, 5:12 mile, and 11:30 2 mile from winter, and ended up getting 5:30 miles, 2:25's for the 800, and 12:00 for the 2 mile in spring. People told me maybe I was overtraining, or didn't get enough sleep, or was having a growth spurt etc. I found out in the end of May that I actually had Lyme disease for the whole spring track season

Miler I've haven't run over 6 miles more than 5 times this summer. Why? Because I'm lazy but also because xc is 3.1 miles and you need speed more than you think. I've been running about 5 miles a day 5 times a week and I keep breaking prs. Tempos are the way to go.

Stop racing I'll tell ya that. Stick to your mileage and remember to ice after each run.

hmm.. I know I'm probably not the #1 person to trust about long distance stuff, but I don't think more miles= faster. I think the right training and quality miles will get you to a 17. I agree with the other posters and looking at your dailes, that more than 10 miles 3 times a week could tire you out.

?? I don't know. But you'll get there. We all have our bad days.

Wow wrote:Another thing to look at is how fast you run your miles. I would do a lot of my runs during base as slow as 7:00 pace, and I know a 4:03 guy and a 3:58 guy who both do their easy runs 6:30-7:00 pace, which is obviously very slow for both of them. Basically, take your easy days easy. There's no harm in throwing in a few races once in a while though (or tempos), just to get your body used to the speed.. but whenever you do that, you typically usually run around the same time or faster (during base period), unless you're really tired/did a hard workout the day before.

By the way, have you had any injury problems in the past?

a guy that my old trainer used to work with ran an 8:43 two mile on our track and all his easy runs are done at 8:00 pace..the guys insane though he went to new york for a couple weeks this winter to run with alan webb.

RawBeginner wrote:What you must understand about base training is that it messes up your LT while building aerobic capacity. Your vo2 is also diminished during the summer, simply because it's not being trained.

Yeah, that could explain why your times aren't improving yet. Just keep running the mileage you are running, there is definitely no point in drasatically reducing it now. I would just keep it up there and there's a great chance you'll have an awesome peak during the season.

ATribeCalledGreg wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:about 67 days, haven't stopped since my break after track.

all i do on sunday is 3 miles easy.

Through_the_Pain wrote:Hey where r u racing'
is it in Van cortlandt park in NY
just wondering cuz we have the thursday races at 7 too

no, i live in cincinnati. but that is kinda weird.

RawBeginner wrote:What you must understand about base training is that it messes up your LT while building aerobic capacity. Your vo2 is also diminished during the summer, simply because it's not being trained. Also, easy miles reduce the elasticity in your muscles...they just don't have their normal explosiveness, right? These things will mess up your racing temporarily. But in the long term, a big base helps you out. I remember this spring when your 2 mile pr was dropping like a rock, but I wasn't surprised. You had done big miles in the summer beforehand and were finally getting benefits. You WILL see the results for the work you put in.

The body responds to stress. Period. You can not run 70 mpw without your body responding in some way.

yea, you're right, hopefully 75 mpw will get easier soon. thanks.

Wow wrote:Another thing to look at is how fast you run your miles. I would do a lot of my runs during base as slow as 7:00 pace, and I know a 4:03 guy and a 3:58 guy who both do their easy runs 6:30-7:00 pace, which is obviously very slow for both of them. Basically, take your easy days easy. There's no harm in throwing in a few races once in a while though (or tempos), just to get your body used to the speed.. but whenever you do that, you typically usually run around the same time or faster (during base period), unless you're really tired/did a hard workout the day before.

By the way, have you had any injury problems in the past?

about 3/4 of my mileage is easy.

only been seriously injured twice, never more than 10 days. i'm icing a lot this summer.

Running With Scissors wrote:Miler I've haven't run over 6 miles more than 5 times this summer. Why? Because I'm lazy but also because xc is 3.1 miles and you need speed more than you think. I've been running about 5 miles a day 5 times a week and I keep breaking prs. Tempos are the way to go.

sorry scissors, you're a great runner, but i gotta disagree.

1) what works for you may not work for everyone else.

2) honestly i couldn't care less if i was PRing right now. the point is to do your best in october and november, not july and august.

i have been doing more speed than some that post here, i think you have to find the right balance for yourself

Running With Scissors wrote:Miler I've haven't run over 6 miles more than 5 times this summer. Why? Because I'm lazy but also because xc is 3.1 miles and you need speed more than you think. I've been running about 5 miles a day 5 times a week and I keep breaking prs. Tempos are the way to go.

I wonder if you'll feel the same way this november when you're getting clownstomped by people who trained more.

RawBeginner wrote:

Running With Scissors wrote:Miler I've haven't run over 6 miles more than 5 times this summer. Why? Because I'm lazy but also because xc is 3.1 miles and you need speed more than you think. I've been running about 5 miles a day 5 times a week and I keep breaking prs. Tempos are the way to go.

I wonder if you'll feel the same way this november when you're getting clownstomped by people who trained more.

i don't think he's going to get clownstmomped, but i doubt he'll improve a lot.

clownstomped? lol

AudienceOfOne wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Running With Scissors wrote:Miler I've haven't run over 6 miles more than 5 times this summer. Why? Because I'm lazy but also because xc is 3.1 miles and you need speed more than you think. I've been running about 5 miles a day 5 times a week and I keep breaking prs. Tempos are the way to go.

I wonder if you'll feel the same way this november when you're getting clownstomped by people who trained more.

i don't think he's going to get clownstmomped, but i doubt he'll improve a lot.

clownstomped? lol

clownstomped should be an important part of everyone's vocabulary

RawBeginner wrote:

AudienceOfOne wrote:

RawBeginner wrote:

Running With Scissors wrote:Miler I've haven't run over 6 miles more than 5 times this summer. Why? Because I'm lazy but also because xc is 3.1 miles and you need speed more than you think. I've been running about 5 miles a day 5 times a week and I keep breaking prs. Tempos are the way to go.

I wonder if you'll feel the same way this november when you're getting clownstomped by people who trained more.

i don't think he's going to get clownstmomped, but i doubt he'll improve a lot.

clownstomped? lol

clownstomped should be an important part of everyone's vocabulary

well it's definetly going into mine.